https://playvidal.com/blogs/news/how-our-magnet-action-works
Maybe it’s not that bad. They put magnets on the bottom to pull the keys when they are near the bottom to eliminate the high pushback of the typical digital actions without escapement 👍🏻 I like that. Hopefully it feels good too and is not just a gimmick.
Hello,
Tom from Vidal registered on PW and has already gotten input from several people, myself included.
@Jane courteously referred him to our 'Clack as well, maybe he'll come and visit/participate.
I think it is great that finally people are trying to address the upweight issue, where the big players thus far totally neglect this (which seems rather strange…).
The attention to other aspects such as sustainability and user-serviceability are lovely too.
Still, Vidal could be sharper as to who their target customers are in conjunction with the requirements of serious piano players, because there are aspects that aren't quite there or even a step back from what we're used to finding in a digital piano/piano controller these days. I wrote some notes about that on PW, and others including @Jane did too.
Cheers and happy developments,
HZ
I wish them well; however, it seems like it’s easier said than done (getting past the distribution barrier created by the big three). Several promising projects have ‘died at sea’ (never reaching the big markets, like the USA).
Now, I’m no engineering genius, like CG, but I do wonder about the magnets kicking in ‘when the keys are near the bottom’, and whether this would feel somewhat unnatural to the player. Of course, the proof is in the pudding, and if they get it right, it would be groundbreaking, and it would prove just how little effort the big three have made in reinventing the ‘digital action;’ something we’ve discussed in the past; wherein, they simply keep making them pivots longer instead of truly innovating, and as I’ve said before, there’s more to an action than just the sum of its pivots.
HZPiano Tom from Vidal registered on PW and has already gotten input from several people, myself included.
I see that he registered here as well 2 days ago. Hi and welcome, @tom_vidal 🙂 Hopefully he wasn't offended by some harsh comments in this discussion, including mine.
Pete14 I’m no engineering genius, like CG
Thanks but I'm not either 😀 Just a restless guys with a lot of energy and spare time.
The mechanism in the vid looks like it's working well. Nice to see people putting in hard yards to achieve objectives like that.
You’re too humble, CG, and I assure you, if I came across a huge bag of cash, I’d give it to you and Del Vento to develop the holy grail of digitals; heck, I’m not waiting to ‘come across’ that bag; I’m headed to the bank right now to make them an offer they can’t refuse: fill that there bag with cash, or I’ll blow your face off!💰😉
Pete14 fill that there bag with cash, or I’ll blow your face off!
I do like traditional, proven methods that guarantee success (even if it renders a mere short-term result 😲).
Cheers and a happy "Hands Up!"
HZ
HZ, it turns out it’s not so easy, robbing a bank (I googled it), so I ask, would you join me in this noble endeavor?
Surely, there are others ‘round here willing to join in on this mission to “take from the proverbial Pete to give to the proverbial Paul” (CG & Del Vento)!
I will need one driver/lookout, and several guns/ammunitions (no hand-grenades, please); also, masks, police uniforms, badges, dark shades, and gloves 🧤 (no DNA left behind). 👮♀️
Who’s with me? (It’s for a good cause: to build the holy-grail of digitals):
Who called 911?😆
Pete14 I googled it
Just don't believe everything that's on the internet, @Pete14 …
Trust your instincts and go get those funds.
As you've written plenty of these Plans of Action before, along quite similar lines and recipes, I'm sure you'll pull it off.
Cheers and a happy heist,
HZ
PS By now @tom_vidal will never come back, thinking we're a sad bunch of utter nutcakes. Which we are, but we're also a serious Piano bunch with some very knowledgeable nutcakes as it comes to actions, sensors, readouts, MIDI streams and so on. Please do understand, Tom!
HZPiano Please do understand, Tom!
Yes, I’ve called the “Vidal” ugly, but that was the old me, Pete, talking; the new me, Petruska, is more open-minded and forgiving; so yes, ‘please do understand, Tom,’ I no longer believe your creation ‘ugly’, but rather ‘eccentric.’
Now, if you could stop by for a brief rendezvous, I, Petruska, promise a warm welcome; and I assure you, I will personally handle the weirdos ‘round here.
We await thee, Tom, we await thee with open arms (and a few well-intended questions).
Going back to the action mechanics... Why the springs? If the back of the key would lift a lever-like block (just like the back of the key lifts the damper in a real action...) wouldn't that give the same result? Easy to individually adjust weigths on both the back of the key and in that block to achieve grading (instead of adjusting spring tension), and easy to set up double blocks to simulate let-off. Vidal's own diagram of key weighting show how off their design is from the Steinway... Ok, it accomplishes weight reduction at key bottom, but the springs also cause linear increase of weight until key bottom, while in a grand action it does not increase until let-off... Why springs?
Is the magnet force for each one adjusted by physical distance of magnetics - so a screwdriver can make the magnetic go up or down - which changes attraction force? Or each one is electromagnetic, so that the force can be controlled precisely by a precisely controlled amount of current flowing through the electromagnets? (such as in the mag-levs etc). And also - as the number of sensor pads is two, instead of three. So tracking of the the states (including direction and position of hammer/key) of the key mechanism is most likely done with other sensors in the unit, right? For tracking of where the key and 'hammer' at all times - including direction and velocities. It's most likely all sorted at this stage.
Good comment about the springs. Are the springs part of the final product? Or weights are used instead for the final.
When I got a similar idea (to tackle the widespread upweight/letoff issue) last year, that was indeed using controllable electromagnets. Vidal's, as I get it, are static magnets in the keybed. They attract a screw in each key, which can be turned (and thus the distance to the magnet changed) to adjust the effect.
Vidal's sensors appear to be conventional double rubber domes. Which in my mind should be triples instead or better still continuous opticals.
The springs are there and will be in the production units exactly so.
If you're interested, read the corresponding article at their site, it sketches out a lot of their design (which is very nice that they give such explanations in the first place).
Cheers and happy further reading,
HZ
vagfilm double blocks to simulate let-off
That sounds interesting, what do you have in mind there?
Cheers and happy ideas,
HZ
HZPiano Thanks for adding those nice details HZ!
The website has been updated to show the action.
Johnstaf The website has been updated to show the action.
Hello,
Actually, I don't see any new information nor new action images (compared to some months ago)?
Cheers and happy weekend,
HZ
Yes, I also think I've already seen all these pictures before. BTW, what's going on with Vidal, are there any units shipped already, any reviews?