A brand new Steinway from VSL: 1887 model D concert grand

I tried this piano for a short time and my first impressions are divided. On the one hand, the piano exudes the beauty of a time and the sound is generally authentically evoked. There is no doubt that certain classical works will absolutely shine with this piano. On the other hand, the standard version of this piano is difficult to use. The blurred and too deep sound of Condenser microphones in different combinations is far from desirable. Heavy use of EQ doesn't fix too many things. The full version with Sphere, tube microphone in the surround version opens this piano and gives the required sound and all the demos sound fantastic, but under the fingers this piano does not give the desired result in software responsiveness, evenness of tone and resonance. Too much for more than 300 euros with discount and partial use. I wish it was just a first impression.

clavierhaus As to the digital side of it, please move to PW where product manager Paul Kopf is available to answer questions in this regard.

Can we invite him here too? Or is he already a member?

CyberGene If he's here, I'll send him a PM… He has a great voice, I do have to say. 🙂

clavierhaus Many thanks for all your hard work in preparing the piano. Also, people here are passionate so don't take personally any comments. Piano Vi's become like beloved children.

I've tried th piano and the sampling was pristine and the piano well balanced which reflects greatly on you and your team's expertise.

I think it made sense to record it in the smaller room in this instance as it really fits the pianos overall vibe.

guys please share some audio samples and presets, i'm personally excited to hear different pieces with different settings

Pete14

ben (from vsl) once said the stage a pianos have up tp 80-90 layers per key and stage b ones have less, so it's probably 60 or above which is fine imo

If you play a note with the sustain pedal up, and then press the pedal (while still holding the note), does it switch to the pedal down samples? Does it work the other way round? The previous Synchron pianos can't do this, but the old Vienna Imperial can (using the 2SUS button). With the Synchron pianos you can have an unrealistic mix of up and down samples on different notes at the same time.

Johnstaf No, both still don't work. That's another reason why I'm not considering buying it. But maybe there will be an update at some point.

pc-king Secondly, I'd be interested to know whether the problem with the notes being too loud still persists when the sustain pedal is pressed: A note with, for example, vel. 30 inside the sustain pedal is much louder on synchron steinway than a note with a vel. 30 outside the pedal. For example, in a MIDI file of Chopin's first ballad, you get a massive accent on the second accompanying chord in bars 9 to 21.

At least they did it right this time.

BTW, the reason why notes with the damper pedal are louder might be because they used the robotized hand to play notes. However, with the damper pedal pressed, the keys become lighter and are easier to accelerate faster with the same force. That’s why I have been criticizing the damper weights in the Novus instruments, they add realism but it’s an artifact on real pianos that is not useful and doesn’t need replication.

CyberGene Yes, I've written that several times. For years.

CyberGene BTW, the reason why notes with the damper pedal are louder might be because they used the robotized hand to play notes

that was a problem with early synchron pianos such as their cfx, concert d and of course (the final boss) bosendorfer imperial, in fact their imperial was so bad in that regard i had to avoid buying it despite the fact that i liked how it sounds, but it's not present in their newer stuff, the 280vc didn't have that problem at all, and after that, the f308 and f212, i haven't checked the d 1887 yet but i'm sure that's not the case with it.

CyberGene but it’s an artifact on real pianos that is not useful and doesn’t need replication.

that's a problem i have with certain people's mindset as if we need every single aspect of a real instrument no matter how useless or even annoying it is, i mean digital/digitized instruments are a thing of their own, they don't need to be an exact copy of the actual thing, especially when it comes to useless artifacts.

pc-king Johnstaf No, both still don't work. That's another reason why I'm not considering buying it. But maybe there will be an update at some point.

Thanks @"rspian". That's such a shame.

pianow that was a problem with early synchron pianos such as their cfx,

I wouldn't consider that a problem with the CFX, that one is also not sampled with the robot hand but with the built in Disklavier system. On the other hand if you think of it it's kind of a natural behavior since if you play two notes on an acoustic piano, one with pedal and one without, the note with pedal will be louder so if the volume on a VI is the same than that would be the unnatural behavior.

johanibraaten No, if I press a note on the sustain pedal at the same speed on a real grand piano, it will also be just as loud. The sound will just be a bit fuller because the other strings are vibrating along with it. However, with the same force (same velocity value), the robot finger reaches a higher top speed because the damper doesn't have to be lifted and the key moves more smoothly. This seems to have finally been taken into account. In the editor, set one note at vel. 15 without the pedal and one at vel. 15 with the pedal in Synchron Steinway. The sound in the pedal will be much louder. The result isn't realistic, because I pressed both keys at the same speed while playing.

pc-king No, if I press a note on the sustain pedal at the same speed on a real grand piano, it will also be just as loud.

Yes but you need more force to achieve the same speed with no pedal in an action with a damper mechanism. It might be a problem in VSL 274 though, I don't know. I can also see it being a problem when rendering midi files.

johanibraaten A professional pianist can intuitively play two notes of equal volume, one with the pedal and one without. He automatically reduce the force slightly with the pedal, achieving the same top speed. The velocity value must represent the top speed of the key or hammer, not the force. F = ma

pc-king A professional pianist can intuitively play two notes of equal volume, one with the pedal and one without. He automatically reduce the force slightly with the pedal, achieving the same top speed. The velocity value must represent the top speed of the key or hammer, not the force.

That's what I mean, if you're used to an acoustic piano you automatically reduces the force when play with pedal if equal volume is desired. So to mimic that behavior on a DP it should be made so you need less force to reach a certain volume when you press the pedal. It could be a problem though in situations described by @Johnstaf if you have different samples for pedal upp and down, if you play a note without a pedal and then hold it and press the pedal then the note might have an unnatural rise in volume. This is a problem in the first generation Avantgrands.

johanibraaten No, because with the N1, for example, I don't have any influence from the pedal. I play with the same force on the pedal, and of course, I don't want it to be any louder.

In other words, if the velocity values ​​are the same, it's because I pressed the keys at the same speed, meaning with less force on the pedal (on a real grand piano) or with the same force (on a digital piano). So, with a virtual instrument, I expect these notes to be the same volume either way.