Actions: Roland PHA-4 Standard vs. Kawai RHIII

HZPiano · 2021-11-14T13:42:36+00:00

Hello, I'm quite familiar with PHA-4 Standard and its MIDI behavior in my Roland FP-10, in use daily as my piano MIDI controller. Absolutely happy with it, particularly at this price point. Yet, I am quite curious if Kawai's RHIII, as found in e.g. the MP7SE, CN29, and CN39, would give me an improvement in touch, nuance, control and provide at least as good a MIDI output as my FP-10 does (which is rather well done if not to say excellent). I was about to visit a store or two to physically try the Kawai RHIIIs out, however, newly instated semi-lockdown measures in my country have made that difficult for some unknown time to come. So I'd be very interested to learn more on how these two actions compare in the hands of people with experience with them for actual piano playing. My 'use case' is my study/home piano, with a broad musical curiosity and interest which currently goes toward classical, minimal/atmospheric, and jazz. Thus far I solely play virtual (VI Labs Modern U), but in case of an engine such as in the MP7SE I could see myself using internal sounds as well, to get some variation and to have fun with. Thank you! Cheers and happy days, HZ

ClothEaredNincompoop

An opinion from Stu Harrison at 17:11:

vagfilm

David B Is there a way to turn the Local Control off on the FP10 when using a VST so that the internal sound engine on the FP10 is disabled?

In a piano that does not support audio-in (AFAIR), switching local control is not important: as HZ reported, you just minimize the volume. The FP30x is a much better alternative for simple setup because it has built-in audio interface.

HZPiano

ClothEaredNincompoop 😀 Haha!! Funnily enough, I watched that very video over breakfast this morning and that got me (once again) thinking/wondering about RHIII.

Cheers and happy playing,

MHirsch

Our friends own a CN29.

I can't compare it to a Roland, but could to a CA79, if you're interested.

HZPiano

MHirsch Thanks for asking, and yes impressions on those two instruments would for sure be interesting.

Cheers and happy playing,

DPPianoPhil

RIP

I think the most current DP in that line from Kawai is the ES920, which also has the RH3 action, with improved key switches, according to the Kawaii brochure. Its little brother, the ES520, has something called Responsive Compact Hammer II (RCHII).

To be clear, I have no experience whatsoever with any DP action, other than my weightless Yamaha keyboard! 😆

Picotin

DPPianoPhil Kawai is the ES920, which also has the RH3 action, with improved key switches, according to the Kawaii brochure.

I've not yet tried the latest ES920 but I own the ES8 since few years.

I do hope the switches were improved because I bumped into two defective ES8 units with annoying behavior. Even after cleaning the contacts by myself a couple of years back, unfortunately the issue comes back. I guess I will replace the rubber strips next time.

Picotin

RIP the RH2 and RH3 actions were exceptionally bouncing and distracting and I did not like that at all.

As an ES8 owner, I've also found RH3 a bit bouncing. That did not bother me much in the past, but I guess it's now becoming more noticeable.

… or maybe, I'm just looking for an excuse to upgrade…

David B

vagfilm The FP30x is a much better alternative for simple setup because it has built-in audio interface.

I placed an order for a Roland FP30X from Musician's Friend. I got a 15% discount. I paid $679 ($733 with tax).

Now I have to put my P45 on Craig's list. I think I'm going to ask $400 for it. They are $550 new before tax.

Hopefully, I'll have my VSL Bösendorfer Imperial up and running at the church soon.

God Bless,
David

MHirsch

HZPiano
Well, long story short: CN29 is trying to push your fingers back if almost depressed, like a short spring. It's tricky to play ppp on CN29, you have to apply more force than actually would be needed, resulting in a louder sound.

CA79 feels more closer to "the real thing".

HZPiano

MHirsch

Hello,

Thank you for a short long story that is rather useful 😀.

On PHA-4 I find it very comfortable to intentionally pick and play the quieter nuances. Every now and then I 'meet' acoustic upright pianos, and usually find that the PHA-4 is in comparison with those probably even too easy in that respect. Perhaps/probably grand piano actions are easier to accurately intend dynamics on.

PHA-4 is generally considered on the heavier side, which it is, but given proper volume settings and playing at the front ends of the keys where possible, it plays comfortably and responsively. Due to the relatively short pivot, it quickly becomes less pleasant where I need to play further back on the keys. I would like improvement there.

So now/so far I have three main clues on Kawai's RHIII:

Stu Harrison rates it between PHA-4 and PHA-50, closer to the latter, for pianistic accuracy (see ClothEaredNincompoop );
From our discussion here: it is a bouncy action;
And: unpleasant to play the lower dynamics on.

Hmmm. Interesting.

Cheers and the happiest playing,

MHirsch

HZPiano

I was helping a friend to shop for a DP. He asked almost the same question, what's the difference between CN29 and CA79, considering the price difference. I pointed out the action differences and the sound (CA's samples are better). And assuming he's going to own that DP for let's say 10 years, the price difference isn't that big. But each time he'd be trying to play ppp on CN29 he'd think "I wish I would have bought the CA79…" 😀

To be clear, we've been to a local piano shop. They had all possible Yamaha and Kawai (also Novus 5S and 10S) DPs on the floor, and also acoustic instruments next to them. That's why it's been very easy to compare.

Where are you actually, based on the partial lockdown I'd say it's Netherlands?

HZPiano

MHirsch Where are you actually, based on the partial lockdown I'd say it's Netherlands?

Hello,

Yes, The Netherlands it is 🙂.

I also have a strong preference for a wooden non-folded action, like in the CA79 or perhaps Casio GP310. But those will be out of budget range for some time to come.

In a nearer future (but not too near), an MP11SE might be somewhat plausible at € 2200 with its GF action. VPC1 probably doesn't tick my boxes because it is reported to be even heavier than my current action.

Again cheers,

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