Actions: Roland PHA-4 Standard vs. Kawai RHIII

David B

I notice the FP10 owner’s manual suggests reading the reference manual for uses - bluetooth, usb to host, and apps - that may involve midi. I read the reference manual. It implies that if either bluetooth is enabled or usb-to-host port is connected to a computer, the midi operation is automatic - no menu settings, no mention about Local Control. The troubleshooting section has a brief suggestion that if you hear double sounds “ it may be because you are attached to a DAW or Sequencer” and advises tweaking the DAW/Sequencer to resolve by changing the “soft thru”parameter.

Hello,

Drew-r Seems you'll be buying another Roland then 😉.

As for the quieter dynamics, try to be more relaxed in your playing, relieving some of that heavy-handedness.

Cheers and happy pounding (or eh, not!)

HZ

Hello,

David B Yes, David, the FP-10 does have a local control on/off setting. It involves holding the 'piano/function' button and pressing one of the high keys simultaneously, if I remember correctly. EDIT: IT TURNS OUT IT PROBABLY DOESN'T.

I just use the volume control at its lowest setting (essentially off) however, so that nothing from the internal engine comes from the speakers.

A tip: However nice and good value for money the FP-10 is, if you appreciate more complete pedaling provisions, perhaps consider the FP-30(X) instead.

Cheers and all the best,

HZ

HZPiano Yes, David, the FP-10 does have a local control on/off setting. It involves holding the 'piano' button and pressing one of the high keys simultaneously, if I remember correctly.

I can't find that function described in any of the online manuals.

It looks like the FP10 is not available in the US (maybe I could find a used one), so the FP30 might be the next logical step.

God Bless,
David

From my perspective as an FP-30 owner, I 1) don't think the speakers are really all that good (so I run sound through an external amplifier and spearate speakers), and 2) am not aware that local control can be set off.

David B I was just double-checking it and I can't find it either, and in the MIDI implementation chart it is listed as 'not recognized'.

So maybe it doesn't have a local control switch after all! Glad the volume at zero works just as well 🙂.

Cheers and happy hunting down your new Roland,

HZ

PS Would that be for church use? You aren't planning to part with your N1X are you?

Hello,

@David B and @QuasiUnaFantasia, I just checked and the FP-30X indeed does have local control on/off (see pages 2 and 12 of the English language manual), which involves the function button together with a piano key.

(@QuasiUnaFantasia I am aware that you were referring to the non-X FP-30).

Hope this helps,

Cheers and enjoy your Sunday (for me, it is already almost history by now),

HZ

Yeah, looks like the FP-30X has it now (local control on/off). I think I might try to sell my P45 and replace it with an FP-30X for use in my office at church.

I can't figure out how to run VST's on my P45 (no local control function) and I'd like to have that option when I'm working at the church. 😀

God Bless,
David

An opinion from Stu Harrison at 17:11:

David B Is there a way to turn the Local Control off on the FP10 when using a VST so that the internal sound engine on the FP10 is disabled?

In a piano that does not support audio-in (AFAIR), switching local control is not important: as HZ reported, you just minimize the volume. The FP30x is a much better alternative for simple setup because it has built-in audio interface.

ClothEaredNincompoop 😀 Haha!! Funnily enough, I watched that very video over breakfast this morning and that got me (once again) thinking/wondering about RHIII.

Cheers and happy playing,

HZ

Our friends own a CN29.

I can't compare it to a Roland, but could to a CA79, if you're interested.

MHirsch Thanks for asking, and yes impressions on those two instruments would for sure be interesting.

Cheers and happy playing,

HZ

RIP

I think the most current DP in that line from Kawai is the ES920, which also has the RH3 action, with improved key switches, according to the Kawaii brochure. Its little brother, the ES520, has something called Responsive Compact Hammer II (RCHII).

To be clear, I have no experience whatsoever with any DP action, other than my weightless Yamaha keyboard! 😆

DPPianoPhil Kawai is the ES920, which also has the RH3 action, with improved key switches, according to the Kawaii brochure.

I've not yet tried the latest ES920 but I own the ES8 since few years.

I do hope the switches were improved because I bumped into two defective ES8 units with annoying behavior. Even after cleaning the contacts by myself a couple of years back, unfortunately the issue comes back. I guess I will replace the rubber strips next time.

RIP the RH2 and RH3 actions were exceptionally bouncing and distracting and I did not like that at all.

As an ES8 owner, I've also found RH3 a bit bouncing. That did not bother me much in the past, but I guess it's now becoming more noticeable.

… or maybe, I'm just looking for an excuse to upgrade…

vagfilm The FP30x is a much better alternative for simple setup because it has built-in audio interface.

I placed an order for a Roland FP30X from Musician's Friend. I got a 15% discount. I paid $679 ($733 with tax).

Now I have to put my P45 on Craig's list. I think I'm going to ask $400 for it. They are $550 new before tax.

Hopefully, I'll have my VSL Bösendorfer Imperial up and running at the church soon.

God Bless,
David

HZPiano
Well, long story short: CN29 is trying to push your fingers back if almost depressed, like a short spring. It's tricky to play ppp on CN29, you have to apply more force than actually would be needed, resulting in a louder sound.

CA79 feels more closer to "the real thing".

MHirsch

Hello,

Thank you for a short long story that is rather useful 😀.

On PHA-4 I find it very comfortable to intentionally pick and play the quieter nuances. Every now and then I 'meet' acoustic upright pianos, and usually find that the PHA-4 is in comparison with those probably even too easy in that respect. Perhaps/probably grand piano actions are easier to accurately intend dynamics on.

PHA-4 is generally considered on the heavier side, which it is, but given proper volume settings and playing at the front ends of the keys where possible, it plays comfortably and responsively. Due to the relatively short pivot, it quickly becomes less pleasant where I need to play further back on the keys. I would like improvement there.

So now/so far I have three main clues on Kawai's RHIII:

• Stu Harrison rates it between PHA-4 and PHA-50, closer to the latter, for pianistic accuracy (see ClothEaredNincompoop );
• From our discussion here: it is a bouncy action;
• And: unpleasant to play the lower dynamics on.

Hmmm. Interesting.

Cheers and the happiest playing,

HZ

HZPiano

I was helping a friend to shop for a DP. He asked almost the same question, what's the difference between CN29 and CA79, considering the price difference. I pointed out the action differences and the sound (CA's samples are better). And assuming he's going to own that DP for let's say 10 years, the price difference isn't that big. But each time he'd be trying to play ppp on CN29 he'd think "I wish I would have bought the CA79…" 😀

To be clear, we've been to a local piano shop. They had all possible Yamaha and Kawai (also Novus 5S and 10S) DPs on the floor, and also acoustic instruments next to them. That's why it's been very easy to compare.

Where are you actually, based on the partial lockdown I'd say it's Netherlands?