Vidal - new midi controller being developed

vagfilm Going back to the action mechanics...

Thanks for that, @vagfilm !

Cheers and happy fruitful discussion,

HZ

SouthPark

When I got a similar idea (to tackle the widespread upweight/letoff issue) last year, that was indeed using controllable electromagnets. Vidal's, as I get it, are static magnets in the keybed. They attract a screw in each key, which can be turned (and thus the distance to the magnet changed) to adjust the effect.

Vidal's sensors appear to be conventional double rubber domes. Which in my mind should be triples instead or better still continuous opticals.

The springs are there and will be in the production units exactly so.

If you're interested, read the corresponding article at their site, it sketches out a lot of their design (which is very nice that they give such explanations in the first place).

Cheers and happy further reading,

HZ

vagfilm double blocks to simulate let-off

That sounds interesting, what do you have in mind there?

Cheers and happy ideas,

HZ

HZPiano Thanks for adding those nice details HZ!

The website has been updated to show the action.

https://playvidal.com/products/vidal

Johnstaf The website has been updated to show the action.

Hello,

Actually, I don't see any new information nor new action images (compared to some months ago)?

Cheers and happy weekend,

HZ

Yes, I also think I've already seen all these pictures before. BTW, what's going on with Vidal, are there any units shipped already, any reviews?

They’re saying that the “first batch” has been sold out, and a wait is in place for those wanting to buy one at the moment.

BTW, I noticed the 88-key version costs over four 4K; can anyone tell me what makes this desk-with-keys so special? (Yes, I know about the magnets, and……).

CyberGene BTW, what's going on with Vidal, are there any units shipped already, any reviews?

My thoughts exactly. Would be quite interesting to see reviews from knowledgeable (please…), independent first users.

Pete14 costs over four 4K; can anyone tell me what makes this desk-with-keys so special?

Typical small/initial production run, early adopter, market skimming pricing. Thus trying to overcome development- and startup costs.

Cheers and happy developments watching,

HZ

HZPiano Typical small/initial production run, early adopter, market skimming pricing. Thus trying to overcome development- and startup costs.

So, then, this means I have to pickup the bill? No, thank you very much!

I shan’t be expected to pay for the “getting-started costs” in the hopes that things even out past the starting-point at Vidal; instead they should try to enlist a millionaire capable of absorbing the initial losses!

The way it goes, normally: you lose money for the first couple o’ years in the hopes that once the company truly takes off, so do the profits, but they should not expect me to pay for the ‘initial’ losses on the basis that I’m supporting some kumbaya, fake-it-till-you-make-it dream!

I’m sorry, Vidal, but $4,399 can get me way more than a desk with magnets & keys……

Pete14 I’m sorry, Vidal, but $4,399 can get me way more than a desk with magnets & keys……

I hear you. That's one more reason I'm not an early adopter.

But do we really know for certain that this $4,399 figure constitutes getting-started costs or market skimming pricing ?

Let's put it this way ......... the person that chose to put the pitchbend lever/toothpick thing in that spot. Marching orders already. 1970 etc layout ...... tolerable. But putting pitchbend 'above' that dial/knob and button ... back to the drawing board fellas.

For 4400 bucks. At least get the pitchbend and mod wheels etc right.

I didn't think the videos of the action were there previously. Not when I last looked anyway.

Isn’t it easier to tinker with a virtual velocity curve rather than physically going in there to tinker with magnetic weights, I ask?

Can they guarantee a return/repair if I mess up the magnets whilst trying to adjust the weight from 40 to 80?

Also, will I get grease on my silky, baby-smooth hands whilst tinkering with them magnets?🧲

Pete14 Can they guarantee a return/repair if I mess up the magnets whilst trying to adjust the weight from 40 to 80? Also, will I get grease on my silky, baby-smooth hands whilst tinkering with them magnets?

Pete, you'll have to spend $4,399 before you can find out.

If it works well, I don't think the cost is unreasonable, but I'm not currently in the market for an expensive controller. I'd imagine (but I don't know) that the manufacturing cost is considerably higher than the Roland/Yamaha/Kawai actions. €3500 inc. VAT isn't outrageous by European standards.

Johnstaf If it works well, I don't think the cost is unreasonable, but I'm not currently in the market for an expensive controller. I'd imagine (but I don't know) that the manufacturing cost is considerably higher than the Roland/Yamaha/Kawai actions. €3500 inc. VAT isn't outrageous by European standards.

I agree, yet I see it only marginally better than the competition. Still there must be a market for these incrementally niche products otherwise the long-lived https://www.flkeys.at/ and Fatar would not exist (incidentally, Fatar still uses Flash in their website 🤣 )

Me being me, as Pete often says, I would look into doing something similar to this magnets stuff using solenoids or even piezo actuators, which are much better than solenoids, even though piezo cannot (yet??) fully reach the needed displacement for piano (okay, one can reduce the displacement by placing the actuator closer to the pivot, but then it would not have enough force, so I should say piezo cannot reach the needed displacement * force characteristics) and are somewhat borderline.

Also, on pivot point, one can design a "virtual" pivot length (as I did in my lego animation, remember?) which is independent of actual pivot length, saving lots of space, and hopefully weight. If I were a mechanical engineer, my question would be can one design similar to that lego but with variable "virtual" pivot length and adjustable in software to taste? That would be tasty!

So in conclusion, I somewhat like this Vidal and wish them success. If it was happening 20 years ago, when Flash was a thing (or perhaps better 30 years ago) I would even be excited. As of 2024, I appreciate their work, but I don't like it and would not buy it myself, especially at that price.

PS: see Pete? You did not provide (yet?) the yachts, the cash and the other dubious promised things, but I am still making (crawling slow) progress.

RIP Also, on pivot point, one can design a "virtual" pivot length (as I did in my lego animation, remember?) which is independent of actual pivot length, saving lots of space, and hopefully weight.

I hadn't seen this. Very nice!

I designed (in my head but not built) a concert grand virtual pivot. It's more like butterfly keys. It would probably be just as reliable as Apple's butterfly keys. 🤣

It seems odd to me that you feel €3500 is reasonable when so many people think the VPC at half that price is overpriced .

MacMacMac It seems odd to me that you feel €3500 is reasonable when so many people think the VPC at half that price is overpriced .

What have other people's thoughts about the VPC price got to do with it?