Vidal - new midi controller being developed

HZPiano Typical small/initial production run, early adopter, market skimming pricing. Thus trying to overcome development- and startup costs.

So, then, this means I have to pickup the bill? No, thank you very much!

I shan’t be expected to pay for the “getting-started costs” in the hopes that things even out past the starting-point at Vidal; instead they should try to enlist a millionaire capable of absorbing the initial losses!

The way it goes, normally: you lose money for the first couple o’ years in the hopes that once the company truly takes off, so do the profits, but they should not expect me to pay for the ‘initial’ losses on the basis that I’m supporting some kumbaya, fake-it-till-you-make-it dream!

I’m sorry, Vidal, but $4,399 can get me way more than a desk with magnets & keys……

Pete14 I’m sorry, Vidal, but $4,399 can get me way more than a desk with magnets & keys……

I hear you. That's one more reason I'm not an early adopter.

But do we really know for certain that this $4,399 figure constitutes getting-started costs or market skimming pricing ?

Let's put it this way ......... the person that chose to put the pitchbend lever/toothpick thing in that spot. Marching orders already. 1970 etc layout ...... tolerable. But putting pitchbend 'above' that dial/knob and button ... back to the drawing board fellas.

For 4400 bucks. At least get the pitchbend and mod wheels etc right.

I didn't think the videos of the action were there previously. Not when I last looked anyway.

Isn’t it easier to tinker with a virtual velocity curve rather than physically going in there to tinker with magnetic weights, I ask?

Can they guarantee a return/repair if I mess up the magnets whilst trying to adjust the weight from 40 to 80?

Also, will I get grease on my silky, baby-smooth hands whilst tinkering with them magnets?🧲

Pete14 Can they guarantee a return/repair if I mess up the magnets whilst trying to adjust the weight from 40 to 80? Also, will I get grease on my silky, baby-smooth hands whilst tinkering with them magnets?

Pete, you'll have to spend $4,399 before you can find out.

If it works well, I don't think the cost is unreasonable, but I'm not currently in the market for an expensive controller. I'd imagine (but I don't know) that the manufacturing cost is considerably higher than the Roland/Yamaha/Kawai actions. €3500 inc. VAT isn't outrageous by European standards.

Johnstaf If it works well, I don't think the cost is unreasonable, but I'm not currently in the market for an expensive controller. I'd imagine (but I don't know) that the manufacturing cost is considerably higher than the Roland/Yamaha/Kawai actions. €3500 inc. VAT isn't outrageous by European standards.

I agree, yet I see it only marginally better than the competition. Still there must be a market for these incrementally niche products otherwise the long-lived https://www.flkeys.at/ and Fatar would not exist (incidentally, Fatar still uses Flash in their website 🤣 )

Me being me, as Pete often says, I would look into doing something similar to this magnets stuff using solenoids or even piezo actuators, which are much better than solenoids, even though piezo cannot (yet??) fully reach the needed displacement for piano (okay, one can reduce the displacement by placing the actuator closer to the pivot, but then it would not have enough force, so I should say piezo cannot reach the needed displacement * force characteristics) and are somewhat borderline.

Also, on pivot point, one can design a "virtual" pivot length (as I did in my lego animation, remember?) which is independent of actual pivot length, saving lots of space, and hopefully weight. If I were a mechanical engineer, my question would be can one design similar to that lego but with variable "virtual" pivot length and adjustable in software to taste? That would be tasty!

So in conclusion, I somewhat like this Vidal and wish them success. If it was happening 20 years ago, when Flash was a thing (or perhaps better 30 years ago) I would even be excited. As of 2024, I appreciate their work, but I don't like it and would not buy it myself, especially at that price.

PS: see Pete? You did not provide (yet?) the yachts, the cash and the other dubious promised things, but I am still making (crawling slow) progress.

RIP Also, on pivot point, one can design a "virtual" pivot length (as I did in my lego animation, remember?) which is independent of actual pivot length, saving lots of space, and hopefully weight.

I hadn't seen this. Very nice!

I designed (in my head but not built) a concert grand virtual pivot. It's more like butterfly keys. It would probably be just as reliable as Apple's butterfly keys. 🤣

It seems odd to me that you feel €3500 is reasonable when so many people think the VPC at half that price is overpriced .

MacMacMac It seems odd to me that you feel €3500 is reasonable when so many people think the VPC at half that price is overpriced .

What have other people's thoughts about the VPC price got to do with it?

RIP PS: see Pete? You did not provide (yet?) the yachts, the cash and the other dubious promised things, but I am still making (crawling slow) progress.

😉

Vidal just announced a design re-vamp:

https://playvidal.com/blogs/news/february-2024-update

"Today we're announcing a new name for the instrument: the Vidal Piano Controller.

Based on feedback, we’ve shifted our design focus to making the best-feeling piano action ever in a digital keyboard. We’ve rethought every facet of the design to create an instrument that fully captures the tactile experience of playing a concert grand piano. Our biggest design change was to remove the springs and switch to a fully inertial action. This new design has large steel weights at the front and back of the keys, creating the same feeling of inertia as in a grand piano."

Vidal Piano Controller - if they team up with kawai - then it will be VPC2.

SouthPark would we then have to wait 13+ years for it to come out? Personally, I am rooting for them to be a success so we’re not at the mercy of the bigger companies who don’t seem interested in catering to this niche market and only want to offer their best actions in their higher end (aka more expensive) pianos.

[deleted] replied here LINK

SouthPark

Interesting, how “Vidal Piano Controller” spells VPC (or the other way around), and not lost in translation is also the fact that they’re calling it the best controller/digital ever; something Kawai claims the “VPC” to be.

It would be nice if they kicked Kawai’s ass….

Can you believe that the VPC-1 went from $1,800 to $2,400 just ‘cause?

Actually, I’m hoping Vidal Piano controller (VPC) sweeps the floor with the other VPC(1)!

P.S.

Yes, I did find the original Vidal hideous (a desk with keys), but I hope that their recent “improvements” don’t end at the action, and they find themselves a more modern-yet-practical design before it ships…(ditch the “desk-with-keys,” but keep the flat top).

Good luck!

Pete14 Can you believe that the VPC-1 went from $1,800 to $2,400 just ‘cause?

I didn't know that before Pete! Just picking my jaw up right now after seeing that.

Pete14 desk with keys

hehehe …. the 'what were we thinking?' sort of thing. For marketing … end of line item, it most likely should be in a form that is much better than the jiffy box look. For marketing. But also based on the price of the vidal.

Hello,

Thanks for posting the update, @[deleted] .

I read the update of affairs info on their website with interest. I do hope they involved seasoned pianists in this endeavor -- because they promise quite a lot and I've got a hunch/feeling of uncertainty whether they already fully understand all the dynamics/variables at play to fulfill what they're saying. Some of their sentences/statements are just plain incorrect.

Let's watch them closely and see what comes out of these rigorous course corrections*). I do hope they'll succeed and come up with something remarkably pleasantly playable and piano-like. For the moment, intuitively, I'm a little afraid they're overshooting their emphasis on inertia, and are not getting their geometry right just yet.

As said, these are hunches/gut feelings, no more, no less.

Cheers and happy endeavor-watching,

HZ

*) I've flown two-seater airplanes for a spell and quickly learned to use the tiniest steering inputs on the four axes of control to keep everything nice and under control, and to not end up in someone else's potato crops.

Starting off with springs and then switching mid course to actual weights to emulate inertia, at the suggestion of Internet users, means zero credibility to me and screams of lack of even basic understanding of physics. YMMV 🙂

P.S. Let me guess what their next update will be in 6 months: based on feedback, we’re making a slight change to our design, we’re not having a steel weight at the back of the keys anymore but decided to create a separate hammer 😀 Then welcome to the main game of hammer actions where some big names have been doing stuff for 30 years and still refining it.