Yamaha CP88 Review

CyberGene · 2022-05-16T13:04:02+00:00

I received the Yamaha CP88 today. This will be a very brief initial review that I may update when I use it for more time. General It is a very solid instrument with all metal panels. Not very heavy for such a robust stage piano at 18kg. Slightly better than those 22kg digital pianos. It's also good-looking, kind of vintage due to rocker switches, etc. I like that they put the pitch and modulation sticks above the keyboard and not to the left as on some other stage pianos, thus it's not too wide. Interface It's very easy to use, similar to a Nord interface but everybody already knows that. Keyboard It has NW-GH3 action. I'm not sure what exactly that means since the name is a mix between NWX (as in P515) and GH3 (as in some of their Clavinovas). The keys feel nice and heavy. I've been going back and forth between it and my Yamaha AvantGrand N1X and the CP88 feels slightly heavier and just a bit more pushing against your fingers compared to the real grand piano action. But difference is not huge and I felt comfortable with that transition. It's not a tiring action to play, nor is annoying in any particular way. What is more, it doesn't have artificial escapement simulation which is something I love! It's graded though and has wooden sides (cores?). The touch response with the piano sounds is very good. I returned a YC73 (with BHS action) before getting the CP88 and I think the BHS action was less heavy and easier to play but also more pushing towards your fingers and the BHS also had some plastic feel to it whereas here I feel more of "pushing some real hammer" beneath my fingers. That is all subjective but I can say the NW-GH3 action is definitely a superior action compared to the BHS and is probably among the best digital piano actions I've tried. The white keys have some fake ivory surface to minimize friction. I'm not a huge fan of those. But my skin is very dry usually. Maybe people who sweat a lot will find it good. The black keys have artificially roughened texture and I find this pretty silly. All at all, the smooth white acrylic and (whatever it's covered with) black surface of my N1X feels more refined and higher quality than this fakery. But it's not a criticism. Maybe some people love those things. Sounds This is a professional stage piano for gigging musicians, not acoustic piano replacement (or home piano), so take that in mind All sounds are really sweet and nice. I first went through all the factory programs which include various acoustic pianos, electric pianos, as well as various layers with pads, organs, synths, etc. and there wasn't a single one that made me think "this is cheap, why did they put it?". I'm usually very critical about layered pianos with pads and strings but I guess the quality of the samples and effects is pretty high here because none was annoying, they are very subtle and varied and many of them reminded me of sounds I've heard on Lyle Mays records. It's definitely been programmed by real musicians who use these programs rather than engineers. As of firmware 1.5 there are now 6-7 full different acoustic piano samples with the CFX naturally being my favorite, I'm used to that sound already. They recently introduced a Hamburg (presumably Steinway) which is also very nice. There is a "Nashville" sample which sounds realistically imperfect and thus suitable for non-classical piano work. When I say "imperfect" I don't mean honky-tonk, rather a piano that is more real life, like a good workhorse (non-concert size) grand piano that you would find in a studio. And it's not an exaggerated piano sound that is artificially brightened or something like that. It's just a nice studio grand piano sound (I think Nashville is the studio where that piano was sampled) that can find great usage on stage and in more pop/jazz oriented context. There are also a few upright pianos and the recently added felt piano in 1.5 is absolutely fantastic! Especially combined with the excellent reverb and compressor it's a nice sound for modern cinematic/pop stuff. There are so many Rhodes samples and all of them are excellent (I'm starting to repeat myself)... The effects and the amp simulation are too. Enough said. The pads and strings are all very nice. Jazz organs are OK I think, there's nice rotary simulation. Maybe not for purists but usable. All the effects sound great. The reverb is a high quality one IMO. Not to VST standards but better than the average for professional stage pianos. And light years ahead of the usual reverb in home digital pianos. Features It has a USB interface, so I can easily add Moog Model D (and other iOS synths) to it through a single USB cable to my iPhone (for both MIDI and digital audio). It also has a very good master controller functionality with 4 external zones with detailed settings (including program change), so one can prepare live sets that include external synths. Another "feature" is Yamaha have IdeaScale where people can suggest features for the CP/YC (and other instruments) and they listen to the customers and implement some ideas, constantly improving the usability, adding samples and features. Seems those instruments were created as platforms that can be constantly updated and enriched and that is rather surprising when you consider it's Yamaha who are the last company you could expect that from! Cons It would be great if there was VRM. There's only damper resonance effect which is rather subtle but as I said it's a professional stage piano for gigging and not for home situations. I returned the YC73 because one of the encoders didn't have resistance when turned (leaked oil according to Yamaha service center). Well, I also have a few of these here 😕 I'm already tired of returning instruments to Thomann (with no piano available for weeks) and I will consider this a small issue and will live with it after all. I feel dumb now. Seems like the no-resistance encoders are intentional and I returned a perfectly working YC73. But well, it's a blessing in disguise since I like the CP88 more than the YC73 😀

Joannchr

The CP88 has got a really nice vintage look. I’m sure it rocks on stage . Used to gig every week end in pubs with its old grand father the CP33 😉 nice memories . This stuff never lets you down .

kawafanboi

about encoders, not the case here, but sometimes if they're stored at a weird angle, the oil can pool to 1 end of the enclosure, and it feels all smooth, but when you get it oriented right after a few days it tightens up.

CyberGene

And now to the downsides. Even though at 18kg it’s not the heaviest stage piano, I have a herniated spinal disc and after our last jam two days ago, having to haul it around with another synth and a double stand, I still have residual pain in my back 😢 At this point I’m really considering downgrading again to a YC61, losing octaves and most importantly losing a wonderful hammer action in exchange for a waterfall one but I’m not a serious gigging musician, so I may have to sacrifice something else but my health 😕 And I don’t play the CP88 at home since I have the N1X.

Joannchr

Sorry to hear about that, but you are right 18kg , is sill on the heavy side given the mass repartition. Imagine if you had an Mp11 !!

CyberGene

The thing is, there's no perfect stage piano in terms of both features, travel weight and size 😕 A good and solid action that is as close as possible to a real piano requires actual weights inside... I'll probably keep the CP88 instead of downgrading it but the travel weight it's really hurting my back and arms...

RIP

CyberGene The thing is, there's no perfect stage piano in terms of both features, travel weight and size

Perhaps it's time for you of embarking on another DIY project?

CyberGene A good and solid action that is as close as possible to a real piano requires actual weights inside...

No if you can find the right actuators with enough strength and lighter enough…. Have you seen https://pianoclack.com/forum/d/744-diy-digital-piano/3 ?

For your goal the best would be to cannibalize and existing synt with the number of octaves you want, remove their sensors, replace with an optical sensors (similar to your Cybrid, but replace comparators with an ADC because you need exact position measurement) and adding actuators to provide force feedback. Given the additional parts, you will need to start with a very light synt to begin with, but I think you have many options there, no?

KevinBSelby

Hey folks! Finally found some time to go out and look for fellow CP88 enthusiasts!
Egads I love this board. I especially love the action. I have had MAAAANY Yamaha keybeds over the years (DGX-640, XF-8, and now CP88) and in my personal opinion, this particular keybed is EXACTLY what I was looking for.
I can tenderly caress it and get very quiet, but then turn around and pound all over it (including routinely hitting 127 velocity) and all the while it feels like I am in COMPLETE CONTROL. Also, I should point out: I have my in-ears (Sony $40 with volume control) directly connected to the headphone out and then use Logic Pro X and the CP88 acts as an audio interface and I record MIDI and Audio at the same time (just to save myself some time in case I nail the recording the first time…then I have an audio track waiting for final processing).

It has indeed been quite the journey from initially hearing it, pounding on it at Ted Brown's for weeks, purchasing it, and then spending 1-2 hours a day for months primarily working through 4 of the built-in grands (in decreasing order of happiness): Hamburg (love it…absolutely love it), Imperial, S700, CFX. I spent those many months playing a certain set of hymns and writing the tunes for "Into the Green" (my own compositions) on all 4 of those grands and then decided at the end to use the Hamburg for "Into the Green" as well as "Emmanuel" (Christmas hymns) and most recently "Acoustic Hymns Vol. 2" (which landed on Apple music and the other platforms TODAY…WOOHOO!). I haven't even yet created a page for it on kevinselby.com (gotta get to that tonight!).

Real quick: "Into the Green" and "Emmanuel" were recorded literally straight out of the CP88 via USB (midi/audio at same time) and I used the on-board reverb of the CP88 and very slight compression in Logic Pro on the master track. Into the Green used slight reverb, whereas Emmanuel used a bit more (I wanted it to sound a little more dreamier). I have since realized that I'd rather use Relab Essentials LX480 (a simple, inexpensive reverb VST that emulates the Lexicon reverb of yesteryear) for the reverb and use the built-in Logic Pro X Compressor Vintage VCA to pull the levels up a bit but not squash the dynamics too much.

Okay…hopefully this forum will allow a few links…in case you are interested in me thoughts.

Thoughts on the Yamaha CP88 (this was immediately after recording "Into the Green" up in the forest of Idaho):
https://kevinselby.com/2022/11/08/thoughts-on-the-yamaha-cp88/

"Into the Green" YouTube playlist (where you can see our beloved CP88 OUT IN THE FOREST MAN…so cool:
[I should point out that the audio in the YouTube videos is a "matrix" mix of direct USB audio blended with what the forest "heard" from a Zoom H4N Pro about 10 yards away "listening" to the Yamaha HS80M studio speakers on the forest floor. If you wanna hear pure audio straight out of the keyboard with no forest, listen to the SoundCloud audio]

I should ALSO point out that I recorded the CP88 with it tuned at 432Hz.

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQ9yxyj8BBLooC_AyBNL3a7YlZjGJFQQo

"Oh Danny Boy" YouTube - also out in the forest. I include this one because it's a popular song that most folks will appreciate:
https://youtu.be/mPTReDdgtGQ

"Cabin Medley" YouTube - also out in the forest. I include this one and BEG you to go to: Conversion Reprise…in fact the link takes you right there…BECAUSE…at the end of that tune, it shows off the escapement and amazing rapid fire SLAMMING you can do on this keybed…woo…and hoo (I swear I'm not breathing during that last frenetic slam-fest because I'm afraid if I breathe, I'll screw it up):
Cabin Medley 4:22: 04:22
Link to song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4Pm8IFf18M

Finally…some SoundCloud links because I ended up remastering the Into the Green tracks a tad (using Relab and Studio VCA compressor) and they only exist in their remastered form on SoundCloud:

SoundCloud links:
Into the Green -

Emmanuel -

Acoustic Hymns Vol. 2 -

NOW…I apologize if I've breached some newbie rule where I'm not supposed to shower you with links and crap…but I figured if y'all are as curious as I am about how others are using the CP88, then maybe it's okay…you have plenty of examples of what I've found with this beast.

What I'm CURRENTLY trying to figure out: so…after listening to Emmanuel and Acoustic Hymns Vol. 2, I determined that I'm quite sick of how I play these days and I want to figure out TWO things:
1. Can I STOP with the left hand constantly doing the root to fifth to 3rd thing? Can I maybe arrange hymns differently in the future?

2. Can I possibly find a grand piano library out there to use within Logic Pro X and maaaaybe it might sound better than the stock CP88 Hamburg sound (which I love…but hey…sometimes ya gotta look for greener pastures occasionally?).

Soooo…I signed up for the UVI "Sonic Pass" thing (which actually…is quite a steal considering you get access to nearly everything these freaks put out…and they put out a HUGE amount of sound libraries.
I then proceeded to record "Be Thou My Vision" using 6 different pianos:

UVI Austrian grand (this is most likely a Bosendorfer, like our beloved Imperial).
UVI Model D (a Model D Steinway…much like our beloved Hamburg, but it (the UVI Model D has some warts I will discuss later).
UVI Italian (Fazioli??).
Addictive Keys - their grand piano, which I painstakingly adjusted the mics and what-not to get it as "Steinway D" sounding as I could.
Yamaha CP88 Hamburg (Steinway…model?…by the by…that is how I stumbled across this site…looking for WHO ON EARTH KNOWS WHAT THE HAMBURG WAS MODELED ON??)
Yamaha CP88 Imperial (Bosendorfer).

I figured out how to A/B between the tracks in Logic Pro X and I am STUNNED…STUNNED I tell you.

I will try to summarize what I found in another post (and in 6 tracks on SoundCloud so you can hear what I did).

Initial thoughts:

The CP88 keybed still absolutely rocks.
When your in-ears/headphones are directly plugged into the CP88, you are struck with how perfectly Yamaha captured the "strike-to-ear" thing. It is amazing. Even playing the VST's within Logic Pro, it is still a great experience.
UVI did NOT build all their Grand's equally.
The UVI Austrian probably sounds the best to my ears and has the best resonance and is probably what I will use to record Acoustic Hymns Vol. 3.
The UVI Steinway D has some warts…oops…already said that…
The UVI Austrian's samples sound pretty close to the CP88's Imperial (which is cool…since we thing they are both Bosie's!!).
The UVI Italian (Fazioli?) is probably the best "balanced" keyboard across the 88 keys and it reminds me of the CP88 S700 (which I love for certain situations…more on that later).

Whewwww…okay…enough for now…I'll hopefully get the 6 tracks recorded TONIGHT and up on SoundCloud and then YOU can hear "Be Thou My Vision" played on 6 different grand's for Kevin's Grand Escapade Shootout.

Again…hope I can post this and hope I haven't annoyed anyone…I just LOVE THIS KEYBOARD!!!

CyberGene

KevinBSelby welcome to the forum! Very nice playing and compositions. Since only a small part of your post is related to the CP88, feel free to split your post into multiple parts in different topics, such as e.g. one that presents your compositions and one that compares various virtual pianos.

KevinBSelby

CyberGene Actually…I looked at it just the opposite. That entire post is music recorded directly from the CP88. The small part is that I'm looking to possibly try different piano libraries against the two pianos (Hamburg and Imperial) in the CP88. I'll make that a separate post if I post it at all…I might just post a URL to SoundCloud and/or KevinSelby.com where I compare the 6 grands.
But yeah…everything else in that post above is pure CP88.

CyberGene

KevinBSelby sure. But don’t be shy, you posted a lot of great music that people not interested in the CP88 might miss 👍🏻

KevinBSelby

CyberGene Ah…I gotcha…I hadn't yet looked at the other topics. GREAT forum here folks…very cool.

Yeah…now that I've prowled around…there are MUCH better libraries out there than the UVI libraries…so I may bag the comparison.
As a quick additional summary:

The ONLY UVI piano I would even CONSIDER using for the next project would be the Austrian Grand and it isn't even that great. It seems to be only 384 Mb and it also seemed to require a LOT of processing power such that on a year old MacBook Pro, I had to adjust the latency settings so I wouldn't get pops and crackles. Luckily it didn't affect the actual latency by much…so it was still playable. I would just use Addictive Keys Studio Grand over this one.

Meanwhile, the UVI Model D is actually pretty bad. Feels very "uncontrollable" and has some notes that stick out (either via weird velocity issues or weird tonal issues). Would not use this for anything.

the UVI Italian, while more "balanced", still isn't "album-worthy".

That leaves the CP88 Hamburg (album-worthy…but I'm fatigued from using it and want to try something different) and the CP88 Imperial (which to my ears isn't as good sounding as the UVI Austrian.

So there's the final review and my semi-professional opinion. I'll either try the Austrian, Addictive Keys, or stick with the Hamburg.

Great forum!

KevinBSelby

Okay…I finally threw together a "Grand Piano Shootout" of nine different grand pianos playing Be Thou My Vision (a popular Christian Hymn):

Addictive Keys Studio Grand (customized by me to sound similar to Steinway D).
UVI Austrian Grand
7 Grand Pianos from CP88.

YouTube video:

https://youtu.be/r-Vfl4PxgO8

Discussion/explanation on kevinselby.com: https://kevinselby.com/2023/02/11/grand-piano-shootout/

SoundCloud Playlist (with the comparison track being Track 1 and then full versions of all 9 grand pianos):

CyberGene

It is with a great sadness to report this news but I sold my CP88 today 😕 In any other regard it is a wonderful piano that I love but as I said I experienced a severe back pain that lasted for two days after I carried this piano from my car to a rehearsal room and back a few weeks ago. It's not the heaviest stage piano there but it's certainly heavy enough for my herniated disc to get hurt... Besides, since it's 88 keys it doesn't fit in my car trunk sideways, so I had to lower half of the backseats and I usually drive the other guys.

And so, I ordered a Studiologic Numa X Piano 73 today 🤣 Yeah, yeah, I know, I had a lukewarm impression from the brief time I owned the Numa X Piano 88 and I posted about that in another discussion. But it's two times cheaper than the CP88 and I am ready to accept some compromise. Besides, they are now at firmware 2.10 and I was at 1.0 and they supposedly improved the touch response which was my main criticism. They also added more sounds and improvements.

P.S. BTW, I managed to sell the CP88 not far from to the original price I paid 7 months ago. Due to the inflation the brand new CP88-s had their prices increasing. At the same time the Numa is still at its original price, so it's not the worst financial acrobatics I've been through.

SouthPark

Pete14 I love Gould, but I’ve come to believe the whole sitting extremely low and “I only play on that chair” was simply Gould being Gould.

True. We could easily beat Gouldy - as in, we can demand we sit on the floor hehehe

SouthPark

CyberGene It is with a great sadness to report this news but I sold my CP88 today 😕

Oh geez. The back definitely needs to be looked after. Can herniated disc be fixed up permanently?

David B

CyberGene It's not the heaviest stage piano there but it's certainly heavy enough for my herniated disc to get hurt...

Your health comes before your hobbies. Good choice to move on.

CyberGene P.S. BTW, I managed to sell the CP88 not far from to the original price I paid 7 months ago. Due to the inflation the brand new CP88-s had their prices increasing. At the same time the Numa is still at its original price, so it's not the worst financial acrobatics I've been through.

Sounds like a win win situation.

Looking forward to seeing/haring the new Numa 73

God Bless,
David

Mindbullets

CyberGene Nice combo! I landed on a very similar pairing… I'm using a CP88 and the Hydrasynth Explorer. Those are some cool wooden cheeks! The Hydrasynth also makes a wonderful virtual instrument controller with programmable scribble strips and polyphonic aftertouch. It's an excellent value (for me, anyway) especially compared to something like a Nord. I strongly prefer the action on the CP88.

I really enjoy the CP88+Hydra pairing with a good reverb/delay pedal. I run the Hydra into the CP88 inputs, then CP88 into a SourceAudio Collider, it's a lot of fun!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kCENgDXRjo

And as you mentioned, the USB interface is awesome to just quickly load up Pianoteq, iOS synths, etc. Great review/discussion.

CyberGene

Mindbullets nice playing and sounds! I enjoyed it a lot. Is that Hydrasynth patch yours? I hear some interesting stuff in the background, some noises that change pitch, is that coming from the Source Audio Collider?

Mindbullets

CyberGene Thanks so much! Those were just a couple of presets I had in my favorites -- Cory's Lead and Flylyke. The Collider here is adding a reverse delay and a big spacey "e-dome" reverb to both the CP88 and Hydra, but I'm also using the Hydra to control a sampler in Bitwig (that plucky texture is coming from the sampler) and that was layered with both Hydra patches. That plucky pad might be what was detuning a little bit, or maybe the aftertouch/vibrato on Cory's Lead.

Anyway, I really enjoyed your noodling in your previous post also! Really beautiful playing. Did you make those Hydra patches?

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