I'm hearing something like "Yorrie" between -12 and -9. And I almost clearly hear Laurel at -8. I can't hear Yanny at any setting. I'm using the "Change Pitch" effect in Audacity, also selecting the "use high quality stretching (slow)" option. I'm using my Sennheiser HD-595s.
I added an option to the poll that I can't hear Yanny. OK, I've removed that and voted for -6 or lower. I can hear Laurel at -8.
I'm betting that Pete14 hears "Paul is the walrus". 🙂
I am surprised that Mac3 is not hearing "Get off my lawn"! That's probably because he can't hear himself! 🤣 🤣 🤣
MacMacMac Comment: The need is to compare real piano A with Pianoteq's version of piano A.
That is another exercise for another day. BTW, you yourself claim that PTQ pianos sound all the same, and many people to various degree relate or agree with it. So I did not specify any PTQ instrument, but if you prefer you can specify that, especially if you like Steinway and dislike Gotrian (I know you dislike both).
The exercise here is if the PTQ sound is good, regardless if it's similar to the claimed brand.
MacMacMac Conclusion: Yanny doesn't matter. This exercise is moot.
This claim is totally antiscientific and does not follow from the rest of your message.
There is reason to suspect that the liking or not liking of the PTQ sound is due to what frequencies one hears (because of the ear or because of the brain). There is evidence that Yanny/Laurel dichotomy is due to what frequency one hears (because of the ear or because of the brain). Hence it's a reasonable investigation to see if there is correlation between liking PTQ and hearing Laurel. You don't care, don't do it, you believe you have your answer already, see whether or not is the same of the test result -- but it's not moot at all.
I haven't figured out how to get sound from the player on the Wikipedia page.
RIP This claim is totally antiscientific and does not follow from the rest of your message.
It follows precisely. Please re-read it.
RIP There is reason to suspect that the liking or not liking of the PTQ sound is due to what frequencies one hears (because of the ear or because of the brain).
That reason for liking or disliking Pianoteq (the Yanny test) may have merit. But it's not relevant if Pianoteq properly mimics a piano.
Because if someone dislikes certain frequencies in a real piano, he'll dislike any VST that properly duplicates the sound of that real piano ... for the very same reason.
That is, if I like A ... and if B equals A ... then I should logically like B, too.
The point in testing the correlation between Pianoteq and Laurel/Yanni is clearly to begin to understand why some people like Pianoteq, while others dislike it. It is a fine study towards that goal (albeit the amount of statistical material here is too limited to warrant any strong conclusions - at least at present; for all we know PianoClack may in the future have tens of millions of maddeningly active users, who all participate in the study). 😄
I don't think it's (just) down to the listener's hearing. Sometimes I hear one, sometimes the other. I can hear Yenny, not Yanny BTW. Sometimes they switch, but I can't make my perception switch at will unlike the Rihanna "paper chaser"/"big ****ing slut", where I can hear whichever one I choose.
If you're offended by "bad" words don't click. 😀
That "paper chaser" example is astounding. Suggest one phrase and I'll hear that. Suggest the other and I'll hear that instead. And no pitch-change voodoo needed. Amazing. This one has me slapping my face in disbelief.
That's named "sensorial priming". Our brain is "designed" to highlight similarities versus contrasts, or otherwise we would go insane if every small irregularity would be perceived as a new entity. You would be astonished by the number of unconscious things that our brain does for our "protection".
Ralphiano I haven't figured out how to get sound from the player on the Wikipedia page.
What if you download the file instead?
Fair enough, sorry for being dismissive without argumenting. I re-read it more carefully and let me deconstruct it now. It looks to me that you make two implicit assumptions which in my opinion (and with the things we all know about PTQ) are both false:
The Yanny/Laurel tests demonstrate that a recording of something can "sound like" (my words, stressing that are the same as yours) in two different ways to different people and even to the same person by pitch shifting (or even without pitch shifting with the "profanity" test). As such, 1 is false.
Before comparing PTQ instrument A to corresponding acoustic instrument A, IMHO one has to understand why the point 2 happens, otherwise it's a moot point! Like showing a mix of people (including color blind persons) images like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishihara_test#/media/File:Ishihara_9.svg and try to conclude whether or not it shows the number 21. Knowing what color-blindness is and who is affected by it, we can conclude that yes, the image shows 21 but not everybody sees it for chemistry reasons of the eye. Likewise, my test tries to understand if some characteristics of one's hearing influence how one likes PTQ. Of course I am shooting in the dark with a guess, because it might be a gazillion of reasons why that's the case, and low probability that I find the right answer, especially at first attempt. Nevertheless the question has merit and it is not moot, whether or not I find such a correlation in the results, as @QuasiUnaFantasia has argued.
MacMacMac That "paper chaser" example is astounding.
Probably because I'm not a native speaker, I hear only uttered non-sense, which I can try to force myself to interpret as word, but that feels like the witnesses of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Murders_in_the_Rue_Morgue
In any case, this example justifies my the test even more, doesn't it?
vagfilm That's named "sensorial priming".
Interesting! Let me make an even longer shot than the Yanny hypothesis. Can it be that we "primed" ourselves to like, or dislike PTQ and so most of us are strongly stuck in one camp, whereas a few poor souls (like myself) who are listening to it with an open mind explicitly looking for both the good and the bad (paper and profanity) could constantly switching camp?
RIP Can it be that we "primed" ourselves to like, or dislike PTQ and so most of us are strongly stuck in one camp, whereas a few poor souls (like myself) who are listening to it with an open mind explicitly looking for both the good and the bad (paper and profanity) could constantly switching camp?
This!
RIP Can it be that we "primed" ourselves to like, or dislike PTQ
I believe this could explain it partly. But I do not believe it explains it fully. I started out using Pianoteq before having listened to modern samples, and I really liked the Pianoteq sound. Later I discovered sampling, and since that time I find fault with Pianoteq's sound.
RIP Can it be that we "primed" ourselves to like, or dislike PTQ and so most of us are strongly stuck in one camp
I don't think that is the case for many. I am always EAGERLY wanting to enjoy pianoteq, and I cannot ever (let me rephrase it: If I had to live with the Pianoteq, I think I would be very happy with their Steinway B and Petrof Mistral; but then I compare it to Garritan or VSLs, and think "why settle for this?").
Maybe the priming lies not on our bias, but on our piano-listening/playing experience. I have ZERO experience of anything other than perfectly tuned and regulated pianos because I have never played for more than 5 minutes in real-life domestic pianos. So, ALL my piano listening experience comes from live or recorded concerts (thus, perfect pianos). Some people like the imperfection of some VSTs because it reminds them of their imperfect pianos. I cannot do that, because I don't have that experience. So, whenever I hear a demo of pianoteq or a sampled piano, my thought is "can this fool me for being an actual recording?". Many sampled examples can, while pianoteq never does throughout a piece. It is always "wow, it is very good. Sounds really authentic... Maybe they nailed it. Jeez, this section here is really off. Now, it is good again... Nahh, it is weird sounding again. Forget it...". And I must say that some of the worst examples are the demos in the official Pianoteq page.
vagfilm Good point!
And I agree completely about the official Pianoteq demos being bad. I think some of them are so bad, it completely baffles me why they would allow their own product to be terribly misrepresented like that (I believe they use very inapropriate presets; in fact I think Modartt are near clueless when it comes to creating presets).
By the way, on the point of importance of experience: I have life-long experience with acoustics, and one of the consequences of that is that I dislike recordings of pianos - and I mean the official prime-label, prime-artist recordings you buy on CD. They sound NOTHING like the real thing (some exaggeration intended here for emphasis). This may be due to recording technology, but I suspect it is primarily due to sound reproduction technology.
RIP I re-read it more carefully and let me deconstruct it now. It looks to me that you make two implicit assumptions which in my opinion (and with the things we all know about PTQ) are both false:
I can't quibble with your points because I really don't understand them. I think you make a complex case out of a simple situation.
I know that many people like PT. I don't know whether PT like/dislike correlates with Yanny/Laurel ... though you may soon find out.
But I if there is indeed a correlation then I (we?) don't yet know whether that is (a) relevant or revealing nor (b) whether cause-and-effect can be demonstrated nor (c) whether such preferences are connected to Yanny/Laurel pitch shifting ... or instead: to freq. response, phase distortion, or any other number of sonic causes. I just don't know what it tells us.
So I thought pitch correcting every time you want to hear the sample might be a bit clunky, so I made an SFZ library centered on middle C, since most of us are set up for playing piano anyway.
I thought this would be just a convenience, but then I noticed that the place where Laurel shifted to Yanni changed depending on which note I triggered right before. Try it out. Much easier to trigger.
Dore the VST creator comes through again! Nice work.
Just tried paperchaser, was going to update the library, but the pitch doesn't matter much for that one.