Pianoteq, Laurel and Yanny - what do you hear and like part 2

Del Vento

Following the discussion in https://pianoclack.com/forum/d/274-yet-another-pianoteq-critique/27 It came to my mind that we can all actually hear frequencies very differently. Hence I'm interested to see if there is a correlation between liking Pianoteq and hearing these two words, which have complementary frequency content.

If you haven't alreay, go to the sister poll and vote there.

Then go to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanny_or_Laurel and try in the browser. Hopefully you can also download the clip and use frequency shift in your favorite player. With VLC it is Tools->Effects->Audio->Advanced and then you can change the number of semitones (note that you need to "enable" that effect and "save it" after each slider movement, otherwise it has no effect!!!)

Try first at zero. If you hear Laurel, go to -12 (where you should hear a burped Yanny) and then slightly raise one by one until you find the level at which the word becomes Laurel. If you already hear Yanny at zero, no need to go to -12, just raise one by one until it becomes Laurel. Repeat it a few times and pick the highest you can get. At first I could not get to hear it higher than -4, but after several tries I was able to reach -1. So for proper statistics let's all do it that way.

QuasiUnaFantasia

At -12 I hear "Yearrie". 😄

At -10 I hear "Yearly".

At -8, -6, and at -4 I hear "Yearrie" again.

At -2 it's back to "Laurel".

Del Vento

QuasiUnaFantasia At -12 I hear "Yearrie". 😄

At -10 I hear "Yearly".

At -8, -6, and at -4 I hear "Yearrie" again.

At least for the sake of this tests we can consider all of them Yanny 🤣

But I am not native speaker, hence some nuances are lost on me anyway….

vagfilm

I clicked - 2 by mistake. Haven't done the test, yet...

Del Vento

vagfilm I clicked - 2 by mistake. Haven't done the test, yet...

After you do it, see if you can change it (I still can change mine). I too much time elapses and you can not, probably @CyberGene can help.

ClothEaredNincompoop

I needed to go way back down in pitch again to recheck after Yanny turned into Laurel and then come up in small steps again.

Pete14 will hear always "Yammy" with an echoing "P-515…515…515…".

MacMacMac

I hear Yanny. Always.

Del Vento

MacMacMac I hear Yanny. Always.

Even when shifting pitch more than +4 semitones? Please vote accordingly.

MacMacMac Anyway ... what has this to do with Pianoteq?

@QuasiUnaFantasia mentioned that people hearing "different" things when listening to the exact same sound (such as in this test) could be correlated to people liking or disliking PTQ.

People who year Yanny (like you) have a hearing which physiologically or psychologically "prefers" certain frequencies which are different from those who hear Laurel.

I speculate that there is a correlation beteween hearing Laurel and liking PTQ, hearing Yanny and disliking it, or being "in between" on what word to hear and being "in between" liking and disliking it. Votes so far somewhat confirm that speculation, but we need to collect more statistics.

MacMacMac

Anyway ... what has this to do with Pianoteq?

ClothEaredNincompoop

MacMacMac

That's in "Part 1" i.e. the "sister poll". (It's not about Kylie vs. Kendall or Ashley vs. Mary-Kate.)

vagfilm

Ok. When I clicked on my correct option, it disappeared from the previous option. So, you can only vote in one option, but can shift many times.
I hear Laurel from -4 to +12, and yanni from -12 to -5*

MacMacMac

Del Vento Even when shifting pitch more than +4 semitones? Please vote accordingly.

My earlier reply (I always hear Yanny) was based on a recording I pulled from another web site.
I pitch shifted that sample up a fifth and down a fifth using Audacity. It was Yanny for all three cases.

Later I found that Wiki link where there were two samples available. With the pitch shifted upward it was Laurel instead.

Pete14

I hear a high-pitched ringing, but then I do suffer from tinnitus!

Mac, I know you will use this against me, “yes, Pianoteq sounds like a high-pitched ringing coming from another room”, but I ask that you have some mercy, and try ‘living in my tinnitus-ears’ for a day before you go on making hurtful jokes!

MacMacMac

I don't understand the point.

Let's begin ...
I like the Steinway sound.
If the Pianoteq Steinway sounds like a real Steinway, then I will like the Pianoteq Steinway, too.
OTOH, if the Pianoteq Steinway is unfaithful to the Steinway sound, then I will dislike the Pianoteq Steinway.

Another person (with different hearing, and with a different Yanny result) might also like a real Steinway.
If the Pianoteq Steinway sounds like a real Steinway, then he will like the Pianoteq Steinway, too.
But if the Pianoteq Steinway is unfaithful to the Steinway sound, then he will dislike the Pianoteq Steinway ... just like me, despite his different Yanny hearing.

Yet another person might dislike the Steinway sound. (Heathen!) 🙂
If the Pianoteq Steinway sounds like a real Steinway, then he will dislike the Pianoteq Steinway, too.

Comment: The need is to compare real piano A with Pianoteq's version of piano A.
Conclusion: Yanny doesn't matter. This exercise is moot.

Del Vento

MacMacMac Comment: The need is to compare real piano A with Pianoteq's version of piano A.

That is another exercise for another day. BTW, you yourself claim that PTQ pianos sound all the same, and many people to various degree relate or agree with it. So I did not specify any PTQ instrument, but if you prefer you can specify that, especially if you like Steinway and dislike Gotrian (I know you dislike both).

The exercise here is if the PTQ sound is good, regardless if it's similar to the claimed brand.

MacMacMac Conclusion: Yanny doesn't matter. This exercise is moot.

This claim is totally antiscientific and does not follow from the rest of your message.

There is reason to suspect that the liking or not liking of the PTQ sound is due to what frequencies one hears (because of the ear or because of the brain). There is evidence that Yanny/Laurel dichotomy is due to what frequency one hears (because of the ear or because of the brain). Hence it's a reasonable investigation to see if there is correlation between liking PTQ and hearing Laurel. You don't care, don't do it, you believe you have your answer already, see whether or not is the same of the test result -- but it's not moot at all.

DPPianoPhil

I hear distinctly Laurel at 0, and distinctly Yanni at -2. The funny thing is at -1, I hear both! Am I crazy (or have multiple personalities)? Don't answer that, it's a rhetorical question! 🤣

The other surprising thing is when the transition from Yanni to Laurel happens, going back down 1 step or even 2 or 3, I still keep hearing Laurel at pitches I previously heard Yanni, but not when gradually raising the pitch from an octave below. Weird stuff indeed.

CyberGene

I'm hearing something like "Yorrie" between -12 and -9. And I almost clearly hear Laurel at -8. I can't hear Yanny at any setting. I'm using the "Change Pitch" effect in Audacity, also selecting the "use high quality stretching (slow)" option. I'm using my Sennheiser HD-595s.

~~I added an option to the poll that I can't hear Yanny.~~ OK, I've removed that and voted for -6 or lower. I can hear Laurel at -8.

MacMacMac

I'm betting that Pete14 hears "Paul is the walrus". 🙂

DPPianoPhil

MacMacMac

I am surprised that Mac³ is not hearing "Get off my lawn"! That's probably because he can't hear himself! 🤣 🤣 🤣

MacMacMac

Del Vento This claim is totally antiscientific and does not follow from the rest of your message.

It follows precisely. Please re-read it.

Del Vento There is reason to suspect that the liking or not liking of the PTQ sound is due to what frequencies one hears (because of the ear or because of the brain).

That reason for liking or disliking Pianoteq (the Yanny test) may have merit. But it's not relevant if Pianoteq properly mimics a piano.

Because if someone dislikes certain frequencies in a real piano, he'll dislike any VST that properly duplicates the sound of that real piano ... for the very same reason.

That is, if I like A ... and if B equals A ... then I should logically like B, too.

Ralphiano

I haven't figured out how to get sound from the player on the Wikipedia page.

Del Vento

Ralphiano I haven't figured out how to get sound from the player on the Wikipedia page.

What if you download the file instead?