Pianoteq - Hands On: NY Steinway D

navindra Thank you! I suppose the crucial question to answer (but may be impossible), would this performance have realistically been more pleasing with another VST?

I think perhaps it would not. I suspect that when coming to music to "listen", one brings a different set of expectations than when one comes to "perform". The former is free to just fall into all the physiological phenomena that make up the overall listening experience, while the latter, being focused on a perfect performance, is not free to experience, but is rather constrained by a very narrow set of goals and expectations, all of which are related to the sound. So, I suspect that all VSTs sound better to their listeners than they do to their players.

My personal experience suggests this is so. I almost always enjoy others' performances on a wide range of VSTs. Yet, my limited playing experience with those same VSTs leaves me focused on their deficiencies. I enjoyed your performance on the Ptq Steinway, and I enjoy Phil Best and others who play Ptq. But, when I play, I dislike the sound and focus on its deficiencies, making the experience less enjoyable.

I think it is entirely possible that the rest of us enjoyed your performance much more than you did for these reasons.

On related matters, I am unfamiliar with the sound of a CP80, so I am unqualified to answer that one.

However I do have Garritan CFX full version, which gets substantial praise elsewhere. I enjoy hearing others play it. i do not like its sound so much when I play it. To my ears, I am unable to enjoy the sound of my playing of Garritan as much as i enjoy the sound of me playing Pianoteq.

navindra Does it really sound like the CP80 in some sense?

Pianoteq actually has a CP-80 model; you could try that one out. It's one of the free instruments.

https://www.modartt.com/free_stuff

https://www.modartt.com/cp-80

CyberGene 🤣 That’s funny! I guess with me and Mac leaving PW there are really no hardcore haters left there. OTOH, there’s nothing more harmful to a product than having only people praising it 😉

Or you could interpret it in the 21st century context: There are only bots left on PW (praising the brands on the targeted platforms). 😆

Ralphiano Oh wow, that's a really good point, and thank you again! I don't think I can ask for anything more than for the recording to sound pleasant.

Perhaps it may be worth mentioning that I don't play on the settings I used for the video. When I play, I use player perspective mics and kill the reverb. Then I just replay the performance using audience settings.

This is the Phil Best method, and Pianoteq makes it so easy. The point is to make to sound right both from player and listener perspectives.

Ralphiano I almost always enjoy others' performances on a wide range of VSTs. Yet, my limited playing experience with those same VSTs leaves me focused on their deficiencies.

Yes, playing with a VST is a different experience than to listen a demo. I am more sensitive to its default when playing myself.

One deficiency is (rarely observed however), velocity layers gap… I know that I should hear a sequence of sounds closed one to one… but a velocity layer gap could make these sound less close than expected. With a demo, I guess that I shouldn’t expect anything, then will not consider a layer gap but perhaps an intention of the player b

PianoClack and Modartt are neck and neck in terms of traffic to YouTube for the past 28 days. We're still talking small potatoes here. 😆

Sometimes PianoClack actually pulls ahead and the views are always of higher quality. The only reason Modartt pulled ahead today is that I have a .signature there... so any random comment I make in the forum pulls in traffic. 😃

Disclaimer: My channel is not monetized and almost everything I have there has a Copyright claim on it. 🙁

navindra

Beautiful playing dude

Keep it up

Great playing!

Regarding PTQ: I regard it as a synth with piano characteristics. Does it matter? Hell no. I like playing synths. I just don't agree that it sounds like the original - unless you don't do a very close and direct comparison. So I don't really see the need to acquire and use it. Also, I don't think it's worth what they demand in terms of price: they sell every piano preset on its own and if you want that handful of presets altogether, they rip you off like there is no tomorrow (799€). That's the main reason I will never buy it: it's IMHO simply overpriced for what it is. Sell the entire piano package for 149€ and I might (!) rethink it. However, I'm not sure of that, because even for 149€ I'm not seeing the advantage of it…. Garritan CFX and Modern U… not sure why I'd need more piano-wise. Maybe VSL Imperial? But until now, I can't really make out the big difference to the CFX, at least not one that would make me switch.

Mta88 Thank you!

MrGr My unscientific observations are:

1) In general, outside of specialized forums, and with nothing to compare to, no one picks up on the synthesis aspects... Pianoteq passes for a regular piano.
2) It's getting harder and harder to identify Pianoteq vs non-Pianoteq, not impossible, but more and more people are getting fooled or confused even on the specialized forums.
3) People accustomed to acoustic pianos are perfectly content with Pianoteq, transition seamlessly, and even prefer it over other digital alternatives.
4) Some of the best sampled VIs are starting to sound more and more like Pianoteq. The VSL 280VC comes to mind.

I agree with your sentiment, that in the end, it's all about the music and making music. Garritan CFX and Modern U are satisfactory by all accounts. Collecting VIs is not a particularly fruitful pursuit in itself.

All things considered, Pianoteq seems to provide me with some additional musical value... I've had fun being able to customize my own piano to suit it to particular pieces.

navindra Collecting VIs is not a particularly fruitful pursuit in itself.

This hit me right in my head 😆

navindra Pianoteq passes for a regular piano.

Not here it doesn't.

Jose EB5AGV navindra Collecting VIs is not a particularly fruitful pursuit in itself.

This hit me right in my head 😆

My head too. I am going to like my collection like some people like their luxury pen collection when one pen is enough to write. But I have to admit that sometimes I like to rediscover one of my virtual piano… and have to admit few are very frequently used (VSL, Bechstein Digital Grand).

navindra 4) Some of the best sampled VIs are starting to sound more and more like Pianoteq. The VSL 280VC comes to mind.

True, and that's probably why I can't tolerate it for very long. I end up playing it for a while and then go back to the Bosendorfer Imperial.

God Bless,
David

navindra PTQ fools me, too. Unless I compare it note by note. And it fools me in probably any more realistic situation. I would tend to agree with you on that. Problem is: I know it's a synth. I'm simply not willing to buy singular synth presets for that amount of monies. That just seems not right to me. 😆

Jose EB5AGV This hit me right in my head

Instead PTQ users have to dump all their monies into single piano presets. Geeee. Now how's that for a difference! 😄

These are not ‘single piano presets’, how dare you!

These are unique -independent- pianos that happen to be part of the Pianoteq ecosystem, but not simple presets!

Go ahead, try to make the Steingraeber sound like the D, or even like the Bluthner……….how dare you!

MrGr I do have Pianoteq also… and a bunch of instruments packs 😅

So a bunch of friendly folks commented on my performance. These are all friendly and supportive folks over at PW, so I'll leave performance comments aside and focus on what can be purely attributed to Pianoteq.

The interesting thing is that people don't have to go out of their way to compliment something that's either not good or not notable. For example, I tried to record the best video I could, but no one comments on it because in the end it is not particularly good or noteworthy.

So what do people have to say, good or bad, about Pianoteq?

A very nice singing tone.

Beautiful piano sound.

Sounds good with your high tech manipulations.

Your piano sings.

What a delightful sound you get out of your piano.

Great piano sound.

Not a bad reflection on Pianoteq for folks who have no skin in the game. That's a fair number of comments on just the piano sound alone... it's almost like Pianoteq is too good for its own sake. 😆

Source: http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/3194308/recital-65-general-discussion-room.html

I have yet to comment in PW on your contribution (it will happen though), but there I am unlikely to comment on the piano sound in itself. However, listening to it now (very well played, by the way) I agree completely with the "singing tone" comments. In my view the stand-out feature of this sound is a long sustain which does not drop off in volume rapidly, unlike so many sampled piano's out there.

But, my personal experience with Pianoteq is that I get "ear fatigue" after a while, and I'm speculating that the reason for this is exactly that long sustain at high volume. This idea just came to me now, so it has not had time to be fully examined yet.

QuasiUnaFantasia I get "ear fatigue"

This is the first ive read of ear fatigue associated (and therefore possibly attributed to) with any make or model of VST played through a given DP/controller/computer/sound system.

Realizing there is often a fuzzy relationship between correlation & causation …. kinda like proof & pudding, between here & there ( mostly there) ive seen people often report & associate ear fatigue with quality of headphones strapped on to one’s head. While ive experienced this very thing - usually with my econo wired JBL phones monitoring utube vids but has also happened with my vintage Hi-Fi system plus or minus the more substantial & expensive Beyer phones monitoring CDs and or mp3s on my old PC …. and Walkman - i suspect the particular design/quality of phones/speakers/drivers plays a part but there are other variables that may/can/do play a part in the fuzzy formula ….. like the production/quality of content being played through some sort of amp & speakers small or big.

Having said alla that, the only skin i have in the VST game is virtual - all of you, my virtual friends who do or have tried various VSTs for better or worse - and includes @navindra at one extreme, so to speak, as well as @MacMacMac at another …… i’m sooooo confused 😱