Pianoteq - Hands On: NY Steinway D

I’m really appreciating Navindra being here, I almost feel like I’m a host to a dear guest 🙂 Out of respect I’ll split the PT-hate posts into another discussion.

🍻

Maybe it does not sound like a real Steinway D, but I think Modartt has made quite a great work with Pianoteq. About the piece, I discovered it also some months ago and love it. Great playing @navindra

BTW, recently published story behind Bluebird:

Best wishes for new year from Spain,

Jose

RIP I'm very much on the same page as you. The high end digitals and the hybrids are very good already. It's still interesting to me when people who are deeply involved with acoustics pick Pianoteq. I'm thinking of folks like Robert Estrin or even legendary manufacturers like Steingraeber.

CyberGene I'll definitely take the "not annoying" part, and thank you so much for the hospitability and kind feedback! 🙂

David B I agree. Unfortunately, the sound does not inspire me when I play it, but everything else about the product is great.

I totally get this. I don't know why exactly I swung the other way (might have been Tyrone's influence), but I completely understand as this was my original position as well. I never truly invested in other VIs, but if I had started with VSL or VI Labs or Garritan, things might have been different for me.

David B Amen! I received a blessing as I listened to it. Thank you for sharing.

I'm deeply honored, thank you David! Especially since I highly admire your tremendous progress on the piano, particularly how you've developed musically in terms of making your own arrangements and how you've developed your sense of musical fluency. Truly inspiring.

Jose EB5AGV Thank you and thanks for sharing that!

As a Pianoteq lover (I must be at the wrong forum - please don't hurt me 😆 ), I love both the sound and your playing. Thanks for sharing.

Mrroland As a Pianoteq lover (I must be at the wrong forum - please don't hurt me 😆 )

No, no, you're not at the wrong forum 😃 As I said previously, the fact that I'm an outstanding Pianoteq disliker doesn't mean I won't allow people to love PT. This forum represents my understanding of democracy: everybody is welcome and everything is allowed 🍻

CyberGene No, no, you're not at the wrong forum 😃 As I said previously, the fact that I'm an outstanding Pianoteq disliker doesn't mean I won't allow people to love PT. This forum represents my understanding of democracy: everybody is welcome and everything is allowed 🍻

I am interrupting my own self-imposed vow of silence ( which had lasted over 24 hours! before CyberGene came along with this gem that i cannot resist responding to 🙂) : i sincerely, genuinely reeeeealy like ( i seldom say i love anything …. a habit from decades as a bachelor) your understanding of democracy …. mainly because it is so unlike popular democracies …. you honor and respect the rights of individuals rather than giving lip service from on high to the group-think view….. you’ve got yourself a very nice, promising, fledgling sovereign republic here, CyberGene …. don’t blow it 😄 …….. you and i and others will know if it happens to succumb and sink in to ‘democracy’ ….. when the elite minority controlling the fate of the mass majority ….. which is to say, when a given 3 foxes in suits/ties/skirts, with great & polite pomp ( IE. Televised “late breaking news”) pontificate so as to debate with a given two chickens , for the greater-good, of course

“ what’s for dinner?”

….. said vow now resumes tick tick tick ….. 🤐

Nice playing, navindra! You did what music is supposed to do, bring pleasure. Thanks for sharing.

Ralphiano Thank you! I suppose the crucial question to answer (but may be impossible), would this performance have realistically been more pleasing with another VST? Most likely it would have been better on an excellent acoustic grand that is in good tune and professionally recorded.

In terms of defects of the sound of this recording, I'd be interested in where this recording of Pianoteq fails. It seems it's hard to be specific. Does it really sound like the CP80 in some sense?

navindra Thank you! I suppose the crucial question to answer (but may be impossible), would this performance have realistically been more pleasing with another VST?

I think perhaps it would not. I suspect that when coming to music to "listen", one brings a different set of expectations than when one comes to "perform". The former is free to just fall into all the physiological phenomena that make up the overall listening experience, while the latter, being focused on a perfect performance, is not free to experience, but is rather constrained by a very narrow set of goals and expectations, all of which are related to the sound. So, I suspect that all VSTs sound better to their listeners than they do to their players.

My personal experience suggests this is so. I almost always enjoy others' performances on a wide range of VSTs. Yet, my limited playing experience with those same VSTs leaves me focused on their deficiencies. I enjoyed your performance on the Ptq Steinway, and I enjoy Phil Best and others who play Ptq. But, when I play, I dislike the sound and focus on its deficiencies, making the experience less enjoyable.

I think it is entirely possible that the rest of us enjoyed your performance much more than you did for these reasons.

On related matters, I am unfamiliar with the sound of a CP80, so I am unqualified to answer that one.

However I do have Garritan CFX full version, which gets substantial praise elsewhere. I enjoy hearing others play it. i do not like its sound so much when I play it. To my ears, I am unable to enjoy the sound of my playing of Garritan as much as i enjoy the sound of me playing Pianoteq.

navindra Does it really sound like the CP80 in some sense?

Pianoteq actually has a CP-80 model; you could try that one out. It's one of the free instruments.

https://www.modartt.com/free_stuff

https://www.modartt.com/cp-80

CyberGene 🤣 That’s funny! I guess with me and Mac leaving PW there are really no hardcore haters left there. OTOH, there’s nothing more harmful to a product than having only people praising it 😉

Or you could interpret it in the 21st century context: There are only bots left on PW (praising the brands on the targeted platforms). 😆

Ralphiano Oh wow, that's a really good point, and thank you again! I don't think I can ask for anything more than for the recording to sound pleasant.

Perhaps it may be worth mentioning that I don't play on the settings I used for the video. When I play, I use player perspective mics and kill the reverb. Then I just replay the performance using audience settings.

This is the Phil Best method, and Pianoteq makes it so easy. The point is to make to sound right both from player and listener perspectives.

Ralphiano I almost always enjoy others' performances on a wide range of VSTs. Yet, my limited playing experience with those same VSTs leaves me focused on their deficiencies.

Yes, playing with a VST is a different experience than to listen a demo. I am more sensitive to its default when playing myself.

One deficiency is (rarely observed however), velocity layers gap… I know that I should hear a sequence of sounds closed one to one… but a velocity layer gap could make these sound less close than expected. With a demo, I guess that I shouldn’t expect anything, then will not consider a layer gap but perhaps an intention of the player b

PianoClack and Modartt are neck and neck in terms of traffic to YouTube for the past 28 days. We're still talking small potatoes here. 😆

Sometimes PianoClack actually pulls ahead and the views are always of higher quality. The only reason Modartt pulled ahead today is that I have a .signature there... so any random comment I make in the forum pulls in traffic. 😃

Disclaimer: My channel is not monetized and almost everything I have there has a Copyright claim on it. 🙁

navindra

Beautiful playing dude

Keep it up

Great playing!

Regarding PTQ: I regard it as a synth with piano characteristics. Does it matter? Hell no. I like playing synths. I just don't agree that it sounds like the original - unless you don't do a very close and direct comparison. So I don't really see the need to acquire and use it. Also, I don't think it's worth what they demand in terms of price: they sell every piano preset on its own and if you want that handful of presets altogether, they rip you off like there is no tomorrow (799€). That's the main reason I will never buy it: it's IMHO simply overpriced for what it is. Sell the entire piano package for 149€ and I might (!) rethink it. However, I'm not sure of that, because even for 149€ I'm not seeing the advantage of it…. Garritan CFX and Modern U… not sure why I'd need more piano-wise. Maybe VSL Imperial? But until now, I can't really make out the big difference to the CFX, at least not one that would make me switch.

Mta88 Thank you!

MrGr My unscientific observations are:

1) In general, outside of specialized forums, and with nothing to compare to, no one picks up on the synthesis aspects... Pianoteq passes for a regular piano.
2) It's getting harder and harder to identify Pianoteq vs non-Pianoteq, not impossible, but more and more people are getting fooled or confused even on the specialized forums.
3) People accustomed to acoustic pianos are perfectly content with Pianoteq, transition seamlessly, and even prefer it over other digital alternatives.
4) Some of the best sampled VIs are starting to sound more and more like Pianoteq. The VSL 280VC comes to mind.

I agree with your sentiment, that in the end, it's all about the music and making music. Garritan CFX and Modern U are satisfactory by all accounts. Collecting VIs is not a particularly fruitful pursuit in itself.

All things considered, Pianoteq seems to provide me with some additional musical value... I've had fun being able to customize my own piano to suit it to particular pieces.

navindra Collecting VIs is not a particularly fruitful pursuit in itself.

This hit me right in my head 😆

navindra Pianoteq passes for a regular piano.

Not here it doesn't.