Pianoteq - Hands On: NY Steinway D

navindra

I've been hands on with Pianoteq for over a year now, ever since I started looking for a better upright sound than that provided by the Kawai Novus NV10.

This year, and it's been a tough one, Pianoteq's NY Steinway D has been my go-to piano at home. I'm happy to be able to conclude 2021 with a recording:

https://youtu.be/y6rJvdodNfM

The NY Steinway D sure feels and sounds good to me. I enjoy the sense of being able to create something musically unique and musically pleasing with Pianoteq. It feels amazingly satisfying to play and it helps enhance my sense of musicality.

If there's a place to learn why and how I'm wrong on this topic, it's here... I'm a beginner and I want to learn, grow, and improve.

There are many reasons why I chose to start with Pianoteq and ultimately stuck with it. The free trial and user-friendly licensing system was the initial lure. Things like the built-in MIDI sequencer, incredible cross-platform support, and limitless musical possibilities, helped seal the deal. Pianoteq does so many things right.

My performance was captured on a Raspberry Pi 400. The magic is: Press the On switch and you're good to go. The Raspberry Pianoteq is a dedicated piano module, completely silent, and essentially invisible, exactly as a computer should be. Just play the piano.

Pianoteq is controlled directly from the Novus using a method similar to the N1X's native control interface -- press a key on the piano. I can also control it from an iPad. Modartt just shipped a JSON-RPC API for Pianoteq that opens up wondrous possibilities for new interfaces.

Ultimately, I don't want to play with a computer, I want to play piano. At most the only extra step should be to turn on the device. The Raspberry Pianoteq comfortably achieves this ideal.

PianoClack is where the Pianoteq wars are, right? 🙂

Happy New Year!

Del Vento

navindra PianoClack is where the Pianoteq wars are, right? 🙂

Actually on the Modartt forum a guy said something to the tone of "the PTQ haters abandoned PW so now everybody there praises it" 🤣

As I told elsewhere many times, I greatly enjoy everything about PTQ, including what you mention here and above all

navindra I don't want to play with a computer, I want to play piano

which PTQ can do (if you don't try to improve its sound). In my opinion its sound is okay, but it can be better. In some recordings, it is even good, as I mentioned on the sister post of this one in PW. I really struggle to understand why!

So far I had not used PTQ much, because I used my NU1 internal sounds, exactly for the "piano, not computer" argument. I did notice the elusive more responsiveness and musicality enhancing capability of PTQ, which it shares with my acoustic grand, as you write. But the "piano, not computer" won, and I did not take the time to set up a box as you did.

Now the NU1 is sold, and I have only my DIY hybrid which is incomplete. When complete, I plan to use PTQ only/mostly, with a setup like yours (certainly not the one with the keyboard, I will use an android app as Bluetooth keyboard and mouse). Hence, I'm extremely interested in your efforts and the ones for the JSON interface that you linked.

Regarding your YT video, I'll repeat what I wrote on PW

Your playing is *very* good. All the possibilities that you mention about PTQ are fantastic, I agree. On the sound itself, it bothers me that the bass is too dull (not bright enough) and the treble is too bright. Or at least so it sounds to me when compared to all the acoustic grands which I have the opportunity to listen to, in person and recorded. I have exactly the same problem in my playing. In fact I mentioned that to the modartt forum, hoping to get a "holy grail" solved, but besides the "it's the velocity curve" I got nothing.

Phil's recording suffer from the same problem. Most of the recordings at https://www.modartt.com/modeld don't, or at least not so strongly. The "F. Chopin - Fantasy in F Minor, Op. 49" has a somewhat artificial bass at the beginning, but the others are fine.

CyberGene

Del Vento Actually on the Modartt forum a guy said something to the tone of "the PTQ haters abandoned PW so now everybody there praises it" 🤣

🤣 That’s funny! I guess with me and Mac leaving PW there are really no hardcore haters left there. OTOH, there’s nothing more harmful to a product than having only people praising it 😉

navindra I would skip commenting the piano sound (BTW it doesn’t annoy me, which should be considered a praise from me 😉) but I loved your playing. I think the last time I’ve seen your videos there was some hesitancy in your playing and a certain preoccupation with playing the right notes at the expense of not having a good feel but this time I hear a feel and emotion in your playing! I thought you had abandoned the piano but instead you come back with a noticeable progress. Bravo 👏🏻

David B

navindra There are many reasons why I chose to start with Pianoteq and ultimately stuck with it. The free trial and user-friendly licensing system was the initial lure. Things like the built-in MIDI sequencer, incredible cross-platform support, and limitless musical possibilities, helped seal the deal. Pianoteq does so many things right.

I agree. Unfortunately, the sound does not inspire me when I play it, but everything else about the product is great.

navindra The NY Steinway D sure feels and sounds good to me. I enjoy the sense of being able to create something musically unique and musically pleasing with Pianoteq. It feels amazingly satisfying to play and it helps enhance my sense of musicality.

That's all that really matters.

navindra If there's a place to learn why and how I'm wrong on this topic, it's here... I'm a beginner and I want to learn, grow, and improve.

There is nothing to learn. You can’t be wrong on this topic. It's not like you’re trying to sell your music but people aren’t buying it because they don’t like Pianoteq. We don’t promote a culture of conformity here. At PianoClack we celebrate individuality. Embrace what inspires you. 😀

navindra This year, and it's been a tough one, Pianoteq's NY Steinway D has been my go-to piano at home. I'm happy to be able to conclude 2021 with a recording:

Amen! I received a blessing as I listened to it. Thank you for sharing.

Happy New Year,
David

Mta88

navindra

Beautiful playing dude

Keep it up

navindra

Del Vento I'm very much on the same page as you. The high end digitals and the hybrids are very good already. It's still interesting to me when people who are deeply involved with acoustics pick Pianoteq. I'm thinking of folks like Robert Estrin or even legendary manufacturers like Steingraeber.

CyberGene I'll definitely take the "not annoying" part, and thank you so much for the hospitability and kind feedback! 🙂

David B I agree. Unfortunately, the sound does not inspire me when I play it, but everything else about the product is great.

I totally get this. I don't know why exactly I swung the other way (might have been Tyrone's influence), but I completely understand as this was my original position as well. I never truly invested in other VIs, but if I had started with VSL or VI Labs or Garritan, things might have been different for me.

David B Amen! I received a blessing as I listened to it. Thank you for sharing.

I'm deeply honored, thank you David! Especially since I highly admire your tremendous progress on the piano, particularly how you've developed musically in terms of making your own arrangements and how you've developed your sense of musical fluency. Truly inspiring.

EB5AGV Thank you and thanks for sharing that!

MacMacMac

CyberGene there’s nothing more harmful to a product than having only people praising it

There is one thing more harmful to a product: Being a crap product.

Deleted

CyberGene 🤣 That’s funny! I guess with me and Mac leaving PW there are really no hardcore haters left there. OTOH, there’s nothing more harmful to a product than having only people praising it 😉

Or you could interpret it in the 21st century context: There are only bots left on PW (praising the brands on the targeted platforms). 😆

MacMacMac

David B the sound does not inspire me when I play it, but everything else about the product is great.

Yes, everything about this audio product is great ... except for the audio. 🙁

That reminds me of an old saying that my father introduced me to ...
The surgeon proclaimed "The surgery was a success! But the patient died."

CyberGene

I’m really appreciating Navindra being here, I almost feel like I’m a host to a dear guest 🙂 Out of respect I’ll split the PT-hate posts into another discussion.

🍻

EB5AGV

Maybe it does not sound like a real Steinway D, but I think Modartt has made quite a great work with Pianoteq. About the piece, I discovered it also some months ago and love it. Great playing @navindra

BTW, recently published story behind Bluebird:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n9OKKyf5R8

Best wishes for new year from Spain,

Jose

Mrroland

As a Pianoteq lover (I must be at the wrong forum - please don't hurt me 😆 ), I love both the sound and your playing. Thanks for sharing.

CyberGene

Mrroland As a Pianoteq lover (I must be at the wrong forum - please don't hurt me 😆 )

No, no, you're not at the wrong forum 😃 As I said previously, the fact that I'm an outstanding Pianoteq disliker doesn't mean I won't allow people to love PT. This forum represents my understanding of democracy: everybody is welcome and everything is allowed 🍻

Drew-r

CyberGene No, no, you're not at the wrong forum 😃 As I said previously, the fact that I'm an outstanding Pianoteq disliker doesn't mean I won't allow people to love PT. This forum represents my understanding of democracy: everybody is welcome and everything is allowed 🍻

I am interrupting my own self-imposed vow of silence ( which had lasted over 24 hours! before CyberGene came along with this gem that i cannot resist responding to 🙂) : i sincerely, genuinely reeeeealy like ( i seldom say i love anything …. a habit from decades as a bachelor) your understanding of democracy …. mainly because it is so unlike popular democracies …. you honor and respect the rights of individuals rather than giving lip service from on high to the group-think view….. you’ve got yourself a very nice, promising, fledgling sovereign republic here, CyberGene …. don’t blow it 😄 …….. you and i and others will know if it happens to succumb and sink in to ‘democracy’ ….. when the elite minority controlling the fate of the mass majority ….. which is to say, when a given 3 foxes in suits/ties/skirts, with great & polite pomp ( IE. Televised “late breaking news”) pontificate so as to debate with a given two chickens , for the greater-good, of course

“ what’s for dinner?”

….. said vow now resumes tick tick tick ….. 🤐

Ralphiano

Nice playing, navindra! You did what music is supposed to do, bring pleasure. Thanks for sharing.

navindra

Ralphiano Thank you! I suppose the crucial question to answer (but may be impossible), would this performance have realistically been more pleasing with another VST? Most likely it would have been better on an excellent acoustic grand that is in good tune and professionally recorded.

In terms of defects of the sound of this recording, I'd be interested in where this recording of Pianoteq fails. It seems it's hard to be specific. Does it really sound like the CP80 in some sense?

Ralphiano

navindra Thank you! I suppose the crucial question to answer (but may be impossible), would this performance have realistically been more pleasing with another VST?

I think perhaps it would not. I suspect that when coming to music to "listen", one brings a different set of expectations than when one comes to "perform". The former is free to just fall into all the physiological phenomena that make up the overall listening experience, while the latter, being focused on a perfect performance, is not free to experience, but is rather constrained by a very narrow set of goals and expectations, all of which are related to the sound. So, I suspect that all VSTs sound better to their listeners than they do to their players.

My personal experience suggests this is so. I almost always enjoy others' performances on a wide range of VSTs. Yet, my limited playing experience with those same VSTs leaves me focused on their deficiencies. I enjoyed your performance on the Ptq Steinway, and I enjoy Phil Best and others who play Ptq. But, when I play, I dislike the sound and focus on its deficiencies, making the experience less enjoyable.

I think it is entirely possible that the rest of us enjoyed your performance much more than you did for these reasons.

On related matters, I am unfamiliar with the sound of a CP80, so I am unqualified to answer that one.

However I do have Garritan CFX full version, which gets substantial praise elsewhere. I enjoy hearing others play it. i do not like its sound so much when I play it. To my ears, I am unable to enjoy the sound of my playing of Garritan as much as i enjoy the sound of me playing Pianoteq.

QuasiUnaFantasia

navindra Does it really sound like the CP80 in some sense?

Pianoteq actually has a CP-80 model; you could try that one out. It's one of the free instruments.

https://www.modartt.com/free_stuff

https://www.modartt.com/cp-80

navindra

Ralphiano Oh wow, that's a really good point, and thank you again! I don't think I can ask for anything more than for the recording to sound pleasant.

Perhaps it may be worth mentioning that I don't play on the settings I used for the video. When I play, I use player perspective mics and kill the reverb. Then I just replay the performance using audience settings.

This is the Phil Best method, and Pianoteq makes it so easy. The point is to make to sound right both from player and listener perspectives.

Frédéric L

Ralphiano I almost always enjoy others' performances on a wide range of VSTs. Yet, my limited playing experience with those same VSTs leaves me focused on their deficiencies.

Yes, playing with a VST is a different experience than to listen a demo. I am more sensitive to its default when playing myself.

One deficiency is (rarely observed however), velocity layers gap… I know that I should hear a sequence of sounds closed one to one… but a velocity layer gap could make these sound less close than expected. With a demo, I guess that I shouldn’t expect anything, then will not consider a layer gap but perhaps an intention of the player b

navindra

PianoClack and Modartt are neck and neck in terms of traffic to YouTube for the past 28 days. We're still talking small potatoes here. 😆

Sometimes PianoClack actually pulls ahead and the views are always of higher quality. The only reason Modartt pulled ahead today is that I have a .signature there... so any random comment I make in the forum pulls in traffic. 😃

Disclaimer: My channel is not monetized and almost everything I have there has a Copyright claim on it. 🙁

navindra

Mta88 Thank you!

MrGr My unscientific observations are:

1) In general, outside of specialized forums, and with nothing to compare to, no one picks up on the synthesis aspects... Pianoteq passes for a regular piano.
2) It's getting harder and harder to identify Pianoteq vs non-Pianoteq, not impossible, but more and more people are getting fooled or confused even on the specialized forums.
3) People accustomed to acoustic pianos are perfectly content with Pianoteq, transition seamlessly, and even prefer it over other digital alternatives.
4) Some of the best sampled VIs are starting to sound more and more like Pianoteq. The VSL 280VC comes to mind.

I agree with your sentiment, that in the end, it's all about the music and making music. Garritan CFX and Modern U are satisfactory by all accounts. Collecting VIs is not a particularly fruitful pursuit in itself.

All things considered, Pianoteq seems to provide me with some additional musical value... I've had fun being able to customize my own piano to suit it to particular pieces.