Ivory III American Concert D Review and Test

HeartKeys Very well-said, and I agree with you on both points. 🙂

Yes, I want to make sure that what you hear is what you get, because otherwise, what's the use for me to demo these things?

HeartKeys So far, my only quip is that the middle C# seems to be louder than all other keys (I didn't have this issue with my other VST's, so this seems to be isolated to Modern D, and not to my VPC1). I did use the VPC Editor and reduced middle C# by about 10 velocities. Would love that to be updated!

Me too, though I didn't experience that bug. Maybe I guess I was trying to control how I press the middle C, haha. We'll see if this gets updated.

Double lunacy.
First, to buy another VST.
Second, to post in a thread containing David's brilliant demo and analysis. (Sorry!)

That said... I'm old and have hearing loss. I honestly don't hear the hiss buildup that David finds so offensive.
I still haven't found pedal settings for Modern D that let me use half pedal, so that takes some of the fun out of that VST for me.
So far, I've been enjoying playing with the ACD3. Without any EQ changes it's clear enough to work with my diminished hearing and responds quite well.
I guess in a few weeks I'll see which way I drift... possibly back to the Ivory 3 German D. But probably not to Pianoteq, except for evenings of penance 😉

I did a quick little recording just to hear what the ACD sounds like. Lacking both David's professional playing and critical analysis, this is a raw snippet that includes una corda, detached notes, somewhat loud banging, etc. And then it just stops...
acd3testmicb.flac

jdg78 At this point, I doubt I'll invest further in this platform unless they make improvements to the underlying technology.

which is quite unlikely giving the fact that all of the "new" ivory stuff are based on old version samples
i would be glad if they would actually record new instruments

Jane I almost wanted to play this for the demo, glad I chose shorter musical moments that more directly made my point. It’s a beautiful piece, one of my favorites of Chopin’s! Thanks for giving me a possible idea for a future video, Jane.

Jane I did a quick little recording just to hear what the ACD sounds like.

Very pretty. Sounds like Chopin. I'd love to hear the same thing played with the Modern D for comparison. 🙂

God Bless,
David

David B Since Cantabile auto-saved the MIDI I was able to re-render it with Modern D.
Close and Hammers mics.
I don't think I've got the Modern D pedal settings quite right for this track, but most of it is close.

Edited to use a different track. I turned half-pedal on at its defaults and for this file it got rid of some of the artifacts.

moderndcloseandhammershalfpedalenabled.flac

Jane I don't think I've got the Modern D pedal settings quite right for this track, but most of it is close.

The airy and more resonant tone of the Ivory sounds good for this Chopin piece, but you can't really turn that off, and I think it would be wearisome for everyday playing (for me). It's similar to the Garritan CFX. Sounds good recorded, but I wouldn't want to play it everyday.

The Modern D also sounds good with this piece in a warm tone that is very clean and intimate. It sounds like I'm sitting in your living room listening to you play this. That's cool because you can add reverb to make it sound like you're playing in a cathedral if you want. The versatility of the Modern D with its warm and clear tone makes it a winner for me.

If I had to choose between the Ivory 3 German and American D, I think the American D might sound better to my ears. I'd have to A/B compare them while playing to know for sure.

Thanks for sharing.

God Bless,
David

How did they get multiple mic perspectives? The original Ivory II version of ACD only has the one, and as far as I understand, the Ivory III version uses the same samples. Did they record additional perspectives in the session that captured the original samples and just not include them until now? Unless I missed something, the website text just glosses over this.

Modern D is sampled with 39 mics, yet only 5 best stereo signs of them are selected. Rumors has it that Synthogy like Galaxy pianos developers refused to use multi mic in final products at that time when some developers were releasing multi mic products. Time passes, technology improves. They came to think of good use of the undisclosed material maybe. It is all my guess. Well, by checking the specs of Ivory II and Ivory III American, I found the latest is smaller in size with four mics. So they might have compressed data this time.

Argyris
perhaps they mixed them all together for the final product (ACD ii)
doing such thing was quite normal back then

David Lai many thanks. You save my money. great review. Now i use Midern D each dayx, with PLAYER C414 + room MICS, i think that they are the best mics in MODERN D to have the Steinway magical Bell. But sorry MODERN D sound like a nice Hamburg Steinway. And modern D tuning is incredible. they have just to fix the wrong Sympathetic resonance when you release pedal within keys still down (Ivory 3 do that right) and MODERN D will be perfect. And the releases are much better in Modern D. yes

pipAT Makes sense, and it wouldn't be the first time Synthogy would have done something like this. The three pianos in Ivory II were updated versions of the original releases dating back to the mid-2000s, just with additional velocity layers that were recorded at the time but not included in the original release.

This reminds me of what Kurzweil did with the (in)famous triple strike piano, having recorded the base samples in the mid-80s and then going on to include better and more complete versions of the basic piano patch in their instruments as the years went by.

And now that I'm looking into it a bit further, this isn't coincidence. As I just discovered in an old SOS article about Ivory I, the same man who created the piano samples for Kurzweil, Joe Ierardi, is the one who started Synthogy. It makes sense that he would use the same technique of sampling more than needed, with future implementations in mind.

David Lai I'd like to thank a fellow member on here, a fellow poster on these threads who wishes to remain anonymous. Earlier today, they offered to pay for my Ivory III ACD upgrade

👍 To (@)Anonymous!!

Cheers and happy generosity,

HZ

Thank you both @David Lai and @Jane for your excellent showcase of these two pianos. Beautiful playing and great selection of repertoire.

My initial impression gravitates towards the overall tone and voicing of original instrument behind the Ivory III ACD. I think it sounds more open and "free". I agree with David though that the release sounds better on the modern D. In the first Beethoven sonata it sounds like there is a slight tuning issue on Ab5 and maybe even on neighboring Bb5 on the modern D? However, being an older instrument there seems to be more general inharmonicy when notes start to interact on the Ivory III ACD, as in the chords built up in "the girl with the flaxen hair". In the Chopin nocturne in E flat I like both instruments. The modern D has a lovely intimacy but the voicing of the Ivory III makes for a most expressive midrange where the modern D sounds I bit colder. In the Chopin Barcarolle I love the "woodymess" of Ivory III in the initial trills and chords where the Modern D sounds more artificial to me. I this piece I think I prefer the treble on the modern D though where the Ivory III also sound beautiful but has a slight "glassiness" to it. When the bass theme comes in octaves it seems that the pedaling in the Ivory III is more nuanced.

Anyway, this is just my initial impressions after having listened with AirPods Pro on a train😀 Thank you both, to me this is very interesting, not least to get familiar with the sound of American Steinways.

i think Modern D is more intimate, and if you use only Player C414 + Room mics, you have the advantage of side A of IVory III + better definition / emotion :

ModernD : Player C414 + Room

cinema-paradiso.m4a

OlivierW

Lovely, Olivier!

HZ

Hi friends,

I posted the review to VI Control as well, and someone was questioning if I was biased toward the Modern D. Indeed, the tests that I was doing may have given the upper hand to it, but I certainly wasn't doing this on purpose. That said, what's more challenging them was that they didn't hear the hiss.

So I isolated the microphones and did a short recording. The first half, I play a chromatic scale in the 4 different mic positions. Then I did a midi rendering of the 3 new mic positions playing the same chromatic scale, pedal up and pedal down, followed by an excerpt from a Chopin prelude.

You tell me if you can hear it, but I hear the hiss both on my headphones and monitors. Hope this will help answer my questions. I'm not giving any bias to any libraries in question.

Original FLAC converted to 320 KBPS mp3.

Cheers,

David

ivory-iii-american-d-hiss.mp3

i can safely say that i enjoy the ACD more then the modern d
it sounds very warm and dreamy, there's a certain warmth in it (i think the first and second harmonics are a bit louder and that's what gives this piano such great sound) that touches my bones

it's not like i think the MD is bad, not at all it's a great instrument and it's better in some areas
but when it comes to sound, i can't help the fact that i always enjoy older pianos more

but i'm still waiting, the market is getting bigger and bigger by day so maybe there will be better things in the near future, but if had to choose between the two (it's very difficult) i'd go with the ivory i think
cause the noise level doesn't bother me (i'm not very sensitive to background noise unless it's too much - but i'm completely fine with something like NOIRE)
and i really don't mind the resonances being sampled or modeled (as long as i get resonances - i'm looking at you vsl)
the only problem i have with the ACD (or any ivory piano in general) is the way they handle release samples, it's fake and unrealistic
if RS was ok with the ivory i wouldn't hesitate to get it, but now i'm quite confused
cause i like the feature set of the modern d better but also prefer the sound of the ivory acd
damn it 🙂

I don't hear something I would label a "hiss", but I do hear some scratching sounds that are clearly not sounds from a piano; they sound like some sort of amplified noise. I got the feeling they appeared at the end of proper piano sounds, so maybe related to release samples.