pianow companies give them their products for review sake
I see, thanks for explaining. I don't know how this works. So yeah, in a sense, VI Labs did lose profit from me because I didn't buy their Modern U or D.
But I wasn't instructed on what to say, or how things are presented. I'm not working for them, or any company for that matter.
David Lai You’re right, but you know, the same can be done with ViLabs pianos.
rodrigopv Yes, exactly. What Synthogy did, however, was out-of-the-box. We have to come up with solutions for UVI WorkStation after the fact. That's the difference.
David Lai Good point. In fact, if I remember correctly, it’s been like this since the first time I used Ivory, back in 2008. Good times with Cakewalk Sonar 8.
rodrigopv It’s unfortunate because the German D has excellent playability, and I assume the American D does as well, besides the fact that the sound of the sampled piano is delightful.
I am entirely in agreement with you. While the playability of Ivory 3 is superb, it seems to come at the expense of tonal fidelity, which is not a tradeoff I'm willing to make, especially given the alternatives currently available.
At this point, I doubt I'll invest further in this platform unless they make improvements to the underlying technology.
Although I am a bit tempted by the original Ivory II version of the American D, as the basic tone is quite lovely. If I ever see it for offered for a good price, I might pick it up.
jdg78 Well, on Best Service, according to a post above, it's $150.
Thanks @David Lai for the response to me from above (in terms of being relatively impartial about your reviews).
I do agree meanwhile that the Modern D seems more meticulous done compared to the Ivory, in terms of its technology, and capturing the essence of the instrument, and just overall "getting it right."
It's probably the first sample-based VST that I felt rivals the responsiveness of Pianoteq. Modern D "feels real" while "sounds real" at the same time. Whereas, VSL to me has some amazing sounding instruments, but the user-to-instrument connection is less there (as well as some other coding quirks).
So far, my only quip is that the middle C# seems to be louder than all other keys (I didn't have this issue with my other VST's, so this seems to be isolated to Modern D, and not to my VPC1). I did use the VPC Editor and reduced middle C# by about 10 velocities. Would love that to be updated!
HeartKeys Very well-said, and I agree with you on both points. 🙂
Yes, I want to make sure that what you hear is what you get, because otherwise, what's the use for me to demo these things?
HeartKeys So far, my only quip is that the middle C# seems to be louder than all other keys (I didn't have this issue with my other VST's, so this seems to be isolated to Modern D, and not to my VPC1). I did use the VPC Editor and reduced middle C# by about 10 velocities. Would love that to be updated!
Me too, though I didn't experience that bug. Maybe I guess I was trying to control how I press the middle C, haha. We'll see if this gets updated.
Double lunacy.
First, to buy another VST.
Second, to post in a thread containing David's brilliant demo and analysis. (Sorry!)
That said... I'm old and have hearing loss. I honestly don't hear the hiss buildup that David finds so offensive.
I still haven't found pedal settings for Modern D that let me use half pedal, so that takes some of the fun out of that VST for me.
So far, I've been enjoying playing with the ACD3. Without any EQ changes it's clear enough to work with my diminished hearing and responds quite well.
I guess in a few weeks I'll see which way I drift... possibly back to the Ivory 3 German D. But probably not to Pianoteq, except for evenings of penance 😉
I did a quick little recording just to hear what the ACD sounds like. Lacking both David's professional playing and critical analysis, this is a raw snippet that includes una corda, detached notes, somewhat loud banging, etc. And then it just stops...
acd3testmicb.flac
jdg78 At this point, I doubt I'll invest further in this platform unless they make improvements to the underlying technology.
which is quite unlikely giving the fact that all of the "new" ivory stuff are based on old version samples
i would be glad if they would actually record new instruments
Jane I almost wanted to play this for the demo, glad I chose shorter musical moments that more directly made my point. It’s a beautiful piece, one of my favorites of Chopin’s! Thanks for giving me a possible idea for a future video, Jane.
Jane I did a quick little recording just to hear what the ACD sounds like.
Very pretty. Sounds like Chopin. I'd love to hear the same thing played with the Modern D for comparison. 🙂
God Bless,
David
David B Since Cantabile auto-saved the MIDI I was able to re-render it with Modern D.
Close and Hammers mics.
I don't think I've got the Modern D pedal settings quite right for this track, but most of it is close.
Edited to use a different track. I turned half-pedal on at its defaults and for this file it got rid of some of the artifacts.
Jane I don't think I've got the Modern D pedal settings quite right for this track, but most of it is close.
The airy and more resonant tone of the Ivory sounds good for this Chopin piece, but you can't really turn that off, and I think it would be wearisome for everyday playing (for me). It's similar to the Garritan CFX. Sounds good recorded, but I wouldn't want to play it everyday.
The Modern D also sounds good with this piece in a warm tone that is very clean and intimate. It sounds like I'm sitting in your living room listening to you play this. That's cool because you can add reverb to make it sound like you're playing in a cathedral if you want. The versatility of the Modern D with its warm and clear tone makes it a winner for me.
If I had to choose between the Ivory 3 German and American D, I think the American D might sound better to my ears. I'd have to A/B compare them while playing to know for sure.
Thanks for sharing.
God Bless,
David
How did they get multiple mic perspectives? The original Ivory II version of ACD only has the one, and as far as I understand, the Ivory III version uses the same samples. Did they record additional perspectives in the session that captured the original samples and just not include them until now? Unless I missed something, the website text just glosses over this.
Modern D is sampled with 39 mics, yet only 5 best stereo signs of them are selected. Rumors has it that Synthogy like Galaxy pianos developers refused to use multi mic in final products at that time when some developers were releasing multi mic products. Time passes, technology improves. They came to think of good use of the undisclosed material maybe. It is all my guess. Well, by checking the specs of Ivory II and Ivory III American, I found the latest is smaller in size with four mics. So they might have compressed data this time.
Argyris
perhaps they mixed them all together for the final product (ACD ii)
doing such thing was quite normal back then
David Lai many thanks. You save my money. great review. Now i use Midern D each dayx, with PLAYER C414 + room MICS, i think that they are the best mics in MODERN D to have the Steinway magical Bell. But sorry MODERN D sound like a nice Hamburg Steinway. And modern D tuning is incredible. they have just to fix the wrong Sympathetic resonance when you release pedal within keys still down (Ivory 3 do that right) and MODERN D will be perfect. And the releases are much better in Modern D. yes
pipAT Makes sense, and it wouldn't be the first time Synthogy would have done something like this. The three pianos in Ivory II were updated versions of the original releases dating back to the mid-2000s, just with additional velocity layers that were recorded at the time but not included in the original release.
This reminds me of what Kurzweil did with the (in)famous triple strike piano, having recorded the base samples in the mid-80s and then going on to include better and more complete versions of the basic piano patch in their instruments as the years went by.
And now that I'm looking into it a bit further, this isn't coincidence. As I just discovered in an old SOS article about Ivory I, the same man who created the piano samples for Kurzweil, Joe Ierardi, is the one who started Synthogy. It makes sense that he would use the same technique of sampling more than needed, with future implementations in mind.