VSL Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial

Ralphiano Okay, I've checked now, and it was quite a surprise, because the Hornung & Møller is different from both the modern laminated ones, and the Bösendorfer style.

The rim is in fact layered, but the layers are stacked on top of one another, each layer being a couple of inches thick. The curve in the rim seems to be sawed, so basically a number of similar pieces of wood are cut to fit the curved shape, and then they are stacked onto each other. No bending of wood necessary!

Moreover, the rim is something like 4 inches thick!

By the way, the Hornung & Møller grands have a very distinct sound. To my ears they are unique, with all other brands sounding quite similar to one another.

QuasiUnaFantasia The rim is in fact layered, but the layers are stacked on top of one another, each layer being a couple of inches thick. The curve in the rim seems to be sawed, so basically a number of similar pieces of wood are cut to fit the curved shape, and then they are stacked onto each other. No bending of wood necessary!

How interesting! This would have been the least expected possible answer!

The construction technique you described would result in a rim that is completely, or nearly completely, tension free. There would be no forces trying to straighten the bends back to the wood's natural state.

This might explain the unique sound. I remember a demonstration of how tension in the wood forming the sound transducer increases amplitude as compared to a tension free sound transducer. I cannot remember if the demonstration tried to explain tonal differences. But, its overall point was that when a soundboard is built with tension tending to oppose the force of the strings acting upon it, it produces much more sound. Thus, the arched design of many string instrument tops, including the piano.

Although the piano rim is not acted upon directly by the strings, it's unification with the soundboard where they meet would make it a part of the overall transducer. And, perhaps the Hornung & Moller differs from the absence of sound contribution from the rim that other pianos exhibit.

QuasiUnaFantasia By the way, the Hornung & Møller grands have a very distinct sound. To my ears they are unique, with all other brands sounding quite similar to one another.

Recording needed. Just your phone suffices, as I mentioned in the Microphone thread

RIP Recording needed.

I suppose so, but the piano is currently very out of tune, so I don't really like to record it at present. I'll make some recordings at a later point, when it has been tuned (and regulated).

Resurrecting this thread as I recently purchased the VSL Synchron Bosendorfer Imperial, and wanted to give my impressions.

This is actually my first experience with any of the VSL instruments. I'd been curious about them for quite a while, but kept resisting taking the plunge for 2 main reasons: 1) the high cost in comparison with other libraries, and 2) the annoying dongle requirement.

Well, they recently did away w/ the dongle requirement, the dollar happens to be at its strongest vs. the euro in years, and they've been running a sale for the past several weeks, so I took this all as a sign that it was finally time to give in to the temptation.

I was fully prepared to return it if it didn't live up to expectations or didn't offer a meaningful improvement in the overall playing experience vs. other VST's I own or have tried (Garritan, Noire, Ravenscroft, Grandeur, Maverick Walker D, Pianoteq), but I'm happy to say that I certainly won't be returning this - it's absolutely stunning. If anything, it exceeds whatever expectations I'd had coming in by a pretty wide margin.

First of all, the playability is absolutely superb - the best I've ever experienced from any VST, and easily besting my previous reference in this department (Garritan). It responds to anything you throw at it without breaking a sweat, and picks up small nuances and changes in touch far more effectively and realistically than any other digital instrument I've tried.

The quality of the samples is very impressive - extremely clear, clean and deep. One of the reasons I was attracted to the Bosendorfer Imperial was because of its particular sound profile which offers a more defined, sculpted sound in comparison to, say, a Steinway, which tends to a more blended, rich sound. That quality is very faithfully captured in the VSL rendering - even when playing thick chords, the overall sound remains amazingly clear and defined while still satisfyingly full.

I would not exactly call it an intimate experience - you really feel like you are in front of a large, powerful, concert instrument, so if you are trying to recreate the sense of playing in small jazz club late at night, this probably isn't going to do it for you. However, it is capable of an impressive degree of warmth and delicacy if you dial in the settings.

Speaking of settings, as far as I'm concerned the Synchron piano player is a model of excellent UI design, usability and functionality compared to most other systems (ahem, Kontakt). It's very well laid out, intuitive to use and offers an impressive array of useful parameters for customizing the sound and midi controls. Kontakt actually offers a similar level of customization features, however its usability is atrocious, and it looks like it was designed to run on Microsoft Windows circa 1996. It literally took me 6 months to discover that you could adjust the velocity curve. With the Synchron player, I had more or less figured out how to operate everything I needed after just a few hours of playing around. Extra bonus points for being able to expand the window up to 200% so that it fits nicely in my 27"monitor.

So all in all, I couldn't be happier with this. I think the only downside is that I fear I'm eventually going to have to try out all the VSL Synchron pianos, and probably upgrade to the full version of the Imperial at some point, which could be very hard on my wallet. 😭

Seriously, though - if I was VSL I would strongly consider also offering a "Light" version of all their Synchron pianos, with just a single close microphone, and price it around $150-200 so that it competes directly with the likes of Garritan, Ravenscroft, Noire, NI, etc. Then offer the standard and full versions at the existing price levels.

I know they have a generous return policy, but there is something of a psychological barrier involved with forking over $300-$500 in comparison to $150, especially when no other competitor is really operating in this price category. I have a feeling that they would be able to more easily grab a segment of curious but hesitant customers who might then be convinced to upgrade to the standard or full versions. I certainly would have tried it out a lot sooner if this was an option. Anyway, just my $0.02.

jdg78 Resurrecting this thread as I recently purchased the VSL Synchron Bosendorfer Imperial, and wanted to give my impressions.

Cool! Thanks for sharing. Having owned all of the Synchron Pianos myself, the BI is my favorite of the bunch.

jdg78 I would not exactly call it an intimate experience - you really feel like you are in front of a large, powerful, concert instrument, so if you are trying to recreate the sense of playing in small jazz club late at night, this probably isn't going to do it for you. However, it is capable of an impressive degree of warmth and delicacy if you dial in the settings.

You could get close to that late night jazz club sound by adjusting the velocity curve to limit the higher volumes. Start with one of the intimate presets and then bring your velocity curve down and you'll get that smaller grand sound.

jdg78 Speaking of settings, as far as I'm concerned the Synchron piano player is a model of excellent UI design,

Agreed! It was lacking an appropriate velocity curve editor, but once that was resolved the Synchron Piano Player now stands head and shoulders above anything else I've used.

jdg78 So all in all, I couldn't be happier with this. I think the only downside is that I fear I'm eventually going to have to try out all the VSL Synchron pianos, and probably upgrade to the full version of the Imperial at some point,

Every preset I've ever used has some variation of the full version in it. I don't think I could be satisfied with the just standard version. Here is my most recent preset.

Congrats on the purchase and enjoy. Don't be shy about sharing a recording once you get the sound you like dialed in. I love trying different presets.

God Bless,
David

David B

Thanks for sharing your settings. For the time being, I’m happy enough with the sound I’m getting from the standard version, but I could see myself upgrading to the full version at some point in the future.

Actually, I’m really only interested in the ribbon and tube mics from the full version, not so much the other ones. It would be nice if VSL sold additional mic positions a la carte, the way Embertone does with the Walker!

jdg78 The tube mic brings out the bass more and the ribbon adds some nice diffusion to the attack without the added reverb the other room mics produce.

God Bless,
David

Here is a short recording I did today with my current presets. This is such a beautiful warm sounding piano. Playability is the best compared to my other VSTs. The settings for this excerpt are the same as in the screenshots above.

God Bless,
David

Hi everyone, I use the vsl bosendorfer imperial and I love it, so responsive. It is on my YouTube videos for anyone who wants to hear it x

HelenClarkePianist you already posted this on other threads. I’ll leave it only here.

David B

David, How did you get over 5 Gb on that piano selection? When I try your settings I’m at 508MB. I have the full Bosendorfer/CFX/Steinway programs and trying to tweak them. Sorry if my question is amateurish but I’m very new to this. I have been using the Garritan CFX which I really like but wanted to expand upon my virtual pianos. Thanks for your time ns consideration in this matter.

Ken

Kbrod1 David, How did you get over 5 Gb on that piano selection? When I try your settings I’m at 508MB.

My preload size is 16384. Larger preload = more memory used.

God Bless,
David

David B Hey i wanted to ask about the Bosendorfer Imperial and 280.. still demoing imp. i like the sound on your vid also.

I saw you did have both plugins and prefer the Imperial.. feels perfect to play btw . Do you think the 280 plays better or worse or just different?

Also is it really that much drier? Some demos don’t sound that way to me. The Imperial can be pretty intimate too.  Just curious.

ps also the way it plays is it similar to this recent modern D? just playing not the sound. Thank You

vvf I saw you did have both plugins and prefer the Imperial.. feels perfect to play btw . Do you think the 280 plays better or worse or just different?

Also is it really that much drier? Some demos don’t sound that way to me. The Imperial can be pretty intimate too.  Just curious.

ps also the way it plays is it similar to this recent modern D? just playing not the sound.

Hi @vvf I recognize you tagged @David B on your questions above, though I thought I'd chime in here as well. Feel free to ignore though!

For background, I have all the VSL full versions as well, have played several acoustic Imperials in real life, and currently own a (relatively) new 280VC.

As far as VSL version of these instruments:
To me, the 280VC has more of a "present" sound and "3D" sound compared to the Imperial. The Imperial meanwhile has a "sweet-sweet" sound that I adore. As far as action/playability goes, I'd say the Imperial is easier to play on VSL compared to 280VC, because its stereo imaging of being in the Synchron Stage A, versus the smaller Stage B (i.e., where the 280VC is recorded). I find myself having more velocity issues with the 280VC than the Imperial.

As far as dryness of playing, the Imperial in Player preset feels/sounds drier to me than the 280VC (even though it's recorded in Stage B). But when Imperial is in Concert Surround, it sounds perfect to me.

Compared to Modern D (action/playability only):
Both of them (not because of the inherent acoustic recorded, but the software itself), to me are very difficult playability compared to Modern D. Based on VI Labs' own website about Modern D, they appear to have full dynamic range for every mic. Or whatever it's called, so it feels so easy to play.

I 1000% feel that playing my acoustic 280VC feels way easier than the VSL version. I can't say the same about the Modern D. I feel like playing Modern D is just as (playability-wise) satisfying as when I'm playing an acoustic Model D.

Hence, even though I am not the top fan of Steinway pianos (usually), I prefer using Modern D almost any day versus VSL. However, I play VSL whenever I want to "hear the best pianos" (including their Hamburg D, which sounds amazing-- to me. just not conducive for my playability purposes).

HeartKeys thanks for the super clear and detailed answer ). I agree Imperial sounds kinda dry like it was recorded in a smaller studio or something..i like it.. im suprised a bit that modern D is actually better for playability than Imperial. i thought it would be pretty much close call..very interesting... Appreciate the response HeartKeys.

vvf Hey i wanted to ask about the Bosendorfer Imperial and 280.. still demoing imp. i like the sound on your vid also.

I saw you did have both plugins and prefer the Imperial.. feels perfect to play btw . Do you think the 280 plays better or worse or just different?

Also is it really that much drier? Some demos don’t sound that way to me. The Imperial can be pretty intimate too.  Just curious.

ps also the way it plays is it similar to this recent modern D? just playing not the sound. Thank You

The settings in this thread are the current for my BI. I prefer the BI to the 280VC. I like the warmer, richer tone. The 280VC is more bright and sparkly. It records nice. However, for just everyday playing I'd choose the BI.

I don't notice a difference in the playability between the Modern D and BI. I think the Modern D has a fuller dynamic range and more truism with the sympathetic resonance and una corda samples. If I had to choose between the two, I'd go with the Modern D for the reasons I mentioned above. However, the BI and F308 remain my favorite VSL pianos.

God Bless,
David

David B

Thank you very much for your insight David B. Btw i just discovered your videos and I really like them. all the best sir ))

as much as i love the bosie imperial by vsl (both sound and playability), i mean it's my favorite vsl piano alongside the legendary vsl cfx, and even though i don't like to break things to people i'd still say that i have a little issue with the imperial that made me not wanting to spend money on it, the sustain pedal lowest samples are pretty loud, it's not just a dynamic level issue, they also sound brighter then the typical ppp range, i mean noticeably… so whenever you depress the sus pedal, you'd lose a great deal in the softer dynamics.

-i only say this because we're in an objective forum and should inform each other about such short comings (me personally, i had a lot of bad purchases because most people are just positive talkers and they always telling you the pros about these products and never the cons), i also say that it's a deal braker TO ME, maybe you don't care about such things in your playing and it's not an issue for you,

anyway my heart was broken when i found out about this because non of other vsl pianos ever convinced me the way their imperial did (both in sound and playability)

and then when i reached out to them they said the typical nonsense : the piano itself sounds like that.

yea sure, a well maintained $500K concert grand loses half of its dynamic range when its sustain pedal is depressed, i believe you, but i also believe in marvel movies so don't mind me 🙂

pianow

Thanks pianow. After checking it and playing for like an hour to make sure in the context of what Im playing, it is no deal breaker for me..it doesn’t bother me. But when i focus on it on its own, yeah you can definitely hear it’s a bit louder. I still get the dynamics I need though. . cheers for the honesty )