_sem_ can you please explain about the different MIDI and Gain responses, what is the objective behind this.
Gene's explanation is spot-on. I decreased the gain response slightly just to make the piano a bit more mellow and intimate sounding. A concert grand can get pretty overwhelming in volume fast.
God Bless,
David
https://usa.yamaha.com/products/music_production/synthesizers/montagem/index.html
I think this is the first 2022 Yamaha CFX model in software form.
Is the playability of hardware CFX in Montage or P525 better than Noire or Garritan CFX or VSL CFX?
pipAT Cool! The demo however sounds a little so-and-so to my ears. Hopefully we'll se new great sounds in Yamahas future pianos.
pipAT Is the playability of hardware CFX in Montage or P525 better than Noire or Garritan CFX or VSL CFX?
I think one thing that built in sounds do better than software instruments is some per key damper behavior (smooth release and damper position). However, I don't know if one get the same function when those sound engines are used with MIDI. Other than that I think the playability of VSL CFX s just as good as any built in sound. Unfortunately I have no experience with Garritan or Noir.
By the way, I saw from a video and found the CFX Concert Grand in Montage M 1.0 has 8 main layers +1 layer key off; CFX2 in v2.0 has 8 main layers. CFX2 sound is more direct like punch-in-face. The Bosie pack is around 400MB. Is the capability of chip the reason that limits the sizes of hardware sound packs. SSD is now much cheaper now.
To put it bluntly: Piano hardware manufacturers live under the proverbial rock as to what is possible nowadays.
They sure could design and produce excellent, excellent instruments that would make our kind of players super happy.
Unfortunately, so far, they don't. The surface of what is "easily" attainable nowadays is hardly scratched.
Cheers,
HZ
Here are the MIDI files with the Pianoteq Kawai SK-EX, and some in-DAW processing. I used the player preset, removed the limiter, lowered the volume, increased the dynamic range, condition to 0.5.
dikrek @CyberGene curious if you hear the Pianoteq character with the Kawai as I have set it up
I think this is my first post here. I'm doing a lot of comparisons for myself and trying to get a sound that I'm happy with. Here is a recording I did yesterday of a Brahms Intermezzo (116 no. 6 in E):
Brahms 116-6 N1X external (Tascam)
I shared the external recording as a reference. That was what I was hearing when I was playing. I have another piece with the same comparison that I might share soon if this one's useful.
(I couldn't figure out how to upload so I went with soundcloud links)
Pathbreaker you can’t upload files as a newbie, which is a protection against spammers. I made you a regular. You should be able to upload now. You can edit your post now and upload the files directly.
That makes sense, thank you @CyberGene ! They are a bit over 30mb so I will adjust them down and then share when I get a chance.
Here's the new files:
N1X external
v-20241115-130302-es0-15-11-24-15-30-14-429-brahms-116-6-norm.mp3
Mondern D
3253-3739-brahms-116-6-modern-d-11-15-24.mp3
Garritan CFX
3253-3739-brahms-116-6-garritan-cfx-11-15-24.mp3
I think the N1X external recording benefits a lot from the additional compression. There's so much noise in that recording. I could have made it better if I had a clue what I was doing. I took the video recording (there is more than one video version that goes with these), removed the audio into a wav, then normalized that in audacity (the only way I know how to make it somewhat presentable). Then I exported that wav to mp3 in this most recent upload. I think it makes for a good comparison of all 3. The VST versions came from cubase as wav files but I still did a default normalize in audacity for those. Then the same mp3 export to reduce the size.
I'm also reviewing your original post again and will try your garritan midi file in my own preset. Yours sounds amazing so I might want to try it (not sure if you posted it anywhere). Also, I never would have guessed the first one was pianoteq since it sounded way better than I expected.
I would run it through Ivory 3 if I knew how to render the midi file through cubase. Same with Modern D, I don't know how to do that. I only know it in the Aria player for Garritan, so I always record the Modern D performance through cubase as I play it and that's what generates the midi file which I render in Garritan. I previously did it the same with with Ivory 3. Some of the Modern D performances suffer from this since I can't respond to that piano's behavior. The garritan suffers a little less because it's a similar piano behavior to the N1X CFX.
CyberGene curious to hear your opinion on the later files I posted for Kawai and Bösendorfer, I don’t hear the extra ringing on the Kawai one, for example, but we don’t all have the same ears.
dikrek sorry, I’ve been a bit busy these days. I will listen to these files when I have some time for music.
@CyberGene "Piano 2" sounds richer and fuller than "Piano 1", I like it better. However, I'd say that 1 might suit better certain scenarios in a mix, however for solo stuff I'd definetely choose 2. 😉
dikrek I just listened to these two Kawai demos of PT. The first one is your best so far. And is probably the least noticeable Pianoteq I’ve heard. There are only certain places where I can somehow notice unnatural blending of some phrases but if I’m not concentrated I may not notice it’s Pianoteq. They should hire you to make patches for them 😃 That’s still not at Garritan CFX level though (my second example in the very first post) but is much better than that PT preset in my first example which is awful.
Your second file is not as good though.
In all examples, the Pianoteq samples sound to me more nasal, brighter, with more mid/high-mid frequency information, less sustain and sharper transient. These are the things that I'm looking for the least in a solo piano context – I would rather aim for a piano with richer overtones, darker, more low-mids, beter sustain for ballads. Highs and high mids I can always easily acquire even with simple post EQ, but the other characteristics that I mentioned above are not so easily achievable.
I remember using back in the day Synthogy Ivory Studio for solo piano/recital performances, and to make it even fuller sounding had to add post EQ + slight tube saturation, so then it sounded "real". Nowadays I can live with the integrated samples of my Numa Compact 2, however for recordings I would rather look at something at the level of Garritan CFX. Here's an example sound of the library:
Koobenot even this sounds nasal to you?
I haven’t EQd it - it would be trivial to do so.
CyberGene thanks but I haven’t modified almost anything. I use the basic Stage version. Just adjusted instrument conditions, increased dynamic range a bit, lowered volume, removed limiter, lowered the Pianoteq reverb.
Then I added my usual DAW FX like better reverb and saturation.
The standard version is ridiculously tweakable and it’s easy to modify it to whatever
I think a lot depends on your speakers or headphones plus the type of music.
