NV12 officially announced on 22/08/2025

johanibraaten

It looks great! Definitely the best looking grand piano-style hybrid so far IMHO.

CyberGene

Indeed, a great looking piano!

Pete14

I’m still waiting for Kawai James’ official announcement, and the first question I have for him:

Does it have the effing key-sensors? if not, what are you gonna do about it?

I’m somewhat split (playing devil’s advocate) about this, and whilst sometimes I think “it’s not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things,” sometimes I wonder “why, Kawai, why?”

I mean, this has to be a cost-savings measure, right? but wouldn’t it have been better to simply omit the “damper mechanism” (to save on costs), and go for the key/damper sensors?

So many questions, I have for James, but still…….

CyberGene

Pete14 but wouldn’t it have been better to simply omit the “damper mechanism” (to save on costs), and go for the key/damper sensors?

These are not comparable. I don't want to undermine the realism of the damper weights in the NV-line, however they are absolutely useless since they are probably one of the few things in a real grand piano that go in the way (literally) of the smooth key movement and hamper the dynamics precision. Yes, having them would prepare you to play on a real grand and you will feel at home but many people buy hybrid pianos not as an exercise tool for Rach 3 they will perform on the uber grand piano at the Carnegie Hall, but rather as an acoustic replacement and will use it as their main instrument. With that in mind, the damper weights are, again, completely useless, and even harmful. And BTW, they are cheap, those are just some hinged pieces of wood on the NV, there are no strings, no real dampers, you just lift some additional weights at the end of the key. That's the definition of silly. It doesn't require a new design since they borrow the entire frame from a real grand piano anyway. And adding keyboard sensors would require special design for the keys (shutters underneath), wiring, PCB-s, advanced scanning and control logic, etc. It can fail (and yeah, it's a Kawai, so the chances are higher than usual...).

Pete14

Are you saying that they simply don’t have the know-how for this “advanced” sensing tech, so, to trick us, they added these useless weights?

I must admit, you might be onto something, here, because the acoustic is indeed hindered with some naturally-occurring defects, and this might be one of those, I speculate….

Dare I say that the “feeling” of the keys getting lighter upon a damper could be implemented thru a velocity curve that “self-adapts”? in other words, as we lift the virtual dampers, the velocity curve changes accordingly in order to mimic the sensation of the keys getting lighter……

Pete14

Kawai claims their approach is more accurate than “conventional key-based sensor systems”:

“The precise movements of each hammer are measured using high-resolution optical sensors, providing greater accuracy than conventional key-based sensor systems.

This more advanced approach closely reproduces the mechanical flow of an acoustic piano, and allows rapid pianissimo passages with mordents or trills to be performed with greater fluency.”

CyberGene

Pete14 they mean compared to the key sensors (actually dome switches) in a regular digital piano.

Florian75

I find you too harsh on Kawai on this.

Do you remember when they released their new CA line 2.5 years ago? They had removed the 5-PIN DIN Midi. VST users were forced to either use bluetooth midi (with lag) or USB midi (with groundloop). That created a big hate wave on all forums against Kawai.

And now 2 years later, they followed Yamaha and included an audio interface in their new model!

So who knows, maybe the "damper / key" sensor will be on the roadmap of NV7 & NV14 in 5 years 😉

Pete14

I wonder if/how they could remedy this through software like Yamaha did with the NU1X….🤔

Still, we don’t know for sure whether the NV12 has these “damper” sensors, but the NV6 doesn’t; however, Yamaha sold the NU1 with one sensor board alongside the rest of the “two-sensor” lineup, the NU1X only got a firmware update halfway during its production, and it wasn’t till the NU1XA that they finally opted to give the piano two sensors, so I suppose there’s a small, tiny chance that the NV12 could boast two whilst the NV6 only one….

I ask, why haven’t we heard of any “loud notes” with current NVs, since they share the same one-sensor flaw as the NU1/X? is the implementation different, or do the “flawed” Yamahas use one sensor under the keys, whilst the NV uses one sensor for the hammers…….leading to different issues respectively (loud-notes vs. no silent strokes/proper note-off detection)?

If the latter, would it have been better for Kawai to use under-key sensors and skip hammer sensors, and, like Yamaha, call the loud-note a naturally-occurring behavior (Yamaha never admitted any wrongdoing)…..🤔

Layman walking………

CyberGene

Pete14 I ask, why haven’t we heard of any “loud notes” with current NVs, since they share the same one-sensor flaw as the NU1/X?

Loud notes are caused by the absence of hammer sensors, while the absence of key/damper sensors prevents the detection of release velocity.

Pete14

CyberGene Loud notes are caused by the absence of hammer sensors, while the absence of key/damper sensors prevents the detection of release velocity.

Thanks for clarifying (that was my suspicion).

But I have to say (again, playing devil’s advocate) that these companies know better, and to release these instruments with “limitations” that they very-well know will hinder the possibilities is inexcusable; especially because these instruments are priced & marketed as “the holy grail,” yet their “cheaper” pianos (Clavinova/CA), which are less-than-holy, have no problem reproducing subtle, but important, nuances (or, in the case of the NU1X, not producing unwanted loud notes)…..

In a nutshell, screw them!

CyberGene

Pete14 their “cheaper” pianos (Clavinova/CA), which are less-than-holy, have no problem reproducing subtle, but important, nuances

You can reproduce subtle but important nuances on a synth action too. That doesn’t mean a grand piano action is useless 🙂

Pete14

CyberGene You can reproduce subtle but important nuances on a synth action too. That doesn’t mean a grand piano action is useless

Good point, but still, why give us the cake yet not the icing?

I mean, it’s like they’re sticking a Ferrari engine into a Corolla; for god’s sake, give us the freaking sensors already (I’m looking at you, Kawai)!

QuasiUnaFantasia

Pete14 Good point, but still, why give us the cake yet not the icing?

They are already thinking about how to advertise the later model to follow the one released now. "Why sell the product to the dumb customers once, when you can sell it to them twice?" is probably the motto hanging on the wall in the boardroom.

Pete14

QuasiUnaFantasia They are already thinking about how to advertise the later model to follow the one released now. "Why sell the product to the dumb customers once, when you can sell it to them twice?" is probably the motto hanging on the wall in the boardroom.

For a minute I forgot, “corporations are not people!”

And yes, we are dumb, inpatient, and uncoordinated, and they know this; because I assure you that if we boycotted these products/companies, they would be forced to change their ways……

I once asked to boycott the N2, how dare you, and only got a few people to join me in this noble pursuit, so you see, we got nowhere; however, had all of you people joined me in boycotting this lemon called the N2, and things might’ve been a bit better now:, but no, you people think that “every man for himself” can achieve a collective goal; and that’s just not how it works!

I propose (perhaps in vain), that we boycott Kawai until they give us the icing! 🤠

Florian75

6 new pictures:

https://www.instagram.com/snadens.pianos/p/DOFEQ1akxWf/

Pete14

I’ve decided to postpone my boycott on Kawai for the time being, or, at least, till James announces and answers!

No, James, you can’t simply announce, drop the mic, and leave the stage; you’ll need to also answer some questions, how dare you!

We want to know:

Damper sensors?

Neotex?

And I’ve since been noticing the question of “how does that small-ish soundboard reproduce the experience of a huge, 9’ concert grand,” or is it meant to simulate a smaller piano?

Still, I love the look of this piano, and I applaud your decision to go full-board, which, yes, still remains to be tested; however, the fact that you even went there (ditching speakers) requires big cojones 🏀 🏀!

David Lai

Pete14 Well, how dare you be so rude?

That aside, I'd be curious to find out as well. But I won't say this in your written tone.

Pete14

David Lai Well, how dare you be so rude?

😁

RIP

David Lai Well, how dare you be so rude?

David, I don't see AT ALL the message Pete wrote as rude.

I think there is a huge cultural chasm between you and him. If both of you can't make the effort to ignore that chasm (which is fine: nothing wrong with not liking the other person's style), I strongly suggest that you simply ignore each other, either by forum feature or by your own "mental attitude".

Witnessing you two quarreling so often is not fun. I mean, sometimes one of you directly addresses the other (which I hope you both will refrain doing in the future) and I understand the other person reacting to that, but in this case you could have simply said "I'd be curious to find out as well. But I won't say this in your written tone" leaving asides the "how dare" part.

And in any case it's all moot point since KJ is not on this forum, but only in PW, so this is clearly just goofing around and wondering among ourselves

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