NV12 officially announced on 22/08/2025

CyberGene

To be fair to the NV10, it’s true that the N1X doesn’t send note off velocity in its MIDI output either. However, it sends the key/damper position (I believe as an aftertouch event) which can be used to derive note-off velocity through a script and if I remember correctly @OlivierW created one such script. The internal piano engine is pretty advanced in terms of release though, since it’s made to recognize the continuous key/damper position and apply a corresponding note tail. You can even do stuff like release the key partially to apply partial dampening and then press it again, so that the note keeps sounding. Good luck doing that with only note-on and note-off messages. It’s one reason why I prefer playing with the onboard CFX engine. I switch to Garritan CFX only for recording.

Jane

CyberGene if I remember correctly @OlivierW created one such script

A script that works was also created for me on the Cantabile forum where I presented that same example of the opening of Rach 2 a few years back.

https://community.cantabilesoftware.com/t/midi-translation-perhaps-like-disklavier-xp/7312

johanibraaten

Jane Yes, the first generation of Avantgrands don’t send the standard midi message for silent key press (note on=1), I don’t think it was a thing in midi back when they first was released. Instead it sends the Disklavier XP message for silent key press which is ”Damper position=127” which when interpreted as standard midi shows as ”Aftertouch 127”. As far as I know pianoteq is the only VI that can interpret Disklavier XP messages correctly but I’d love to know about if there are any others since I have the N1. However you can always, as mentioned in this discussion, map the messages to standard midi to get things like silent key press or note off velocity (even if it isn’t the same as damper position).

OlivierW

CyberGene Yes, I’ve created both a script and a Mac .app. A VST could also implement a poly aftertouch option for note release if the developer chooses to.

Pete14

johanibraaten

Pete14 Thank you, it’s good to see that there are some human regulation work involved.

Johnstaf

iternabe Also, after the hammer escapes, strikes, then fall and rest, while the key is held down, will the hammer still move (in small amounts) corresponding to the key stick’s release movement? If so, would a high precision hammer sensor that can sense the full range of hammer position, using a sophisticated algorithm, detect key stick release movement and extrapolate damper position?

Hammer position gets complicated after the note has been played. It bounces off the string, flies back and compresses the repetition spring via the repetition lever, and is then caught by the back-check if the key reaches the bottom of the keybed. When the key is released, and the back-check frees the hammer, the spring pushes the hammer back up, but not enough to touch the string -although if the spring is too strong you can get double-strikes.

The trajectory of the hammer varies quite a lot depending on a few variables. It's difficult to infer much from the hammer position -even if you could measure it at every point in its travel.

The damper position can easily be calculated from the key position, as the two are very simply related.

srodrigo

Pete14 My biggest concern is Kawai’s terrible quality-control, and having to deal with repairs right out of the box is not something I’m looking forward to (I’ve had issues with all the Kawais I’ve owned)

I'm on the market for a digital (can't fit a NV10s) and I'm chickening out from my original CA701 preference, which we all know it's probably one of the DPs with the longest history of customer complains. Shame, because otherwise they make the best DPs, but I think I'll pass this time despite my ES920 giving 0 trouble so far.

HZPiano

srodrigo I'm chickening out from my original CA701 preference […] Shame, because otherwise they make the best DPs

Same here.

It's a really awkward situation. And truly a pity.

Cheers,

srodrigo

HZPiano Are you in the looks then? Are you considering any other models? I'm looking into the LX6, which quite surprised me (better speakers and decent action). Tried a CLP885, I thought the action was terrible. So not much to chose from these days.

HZPiano

srodrigo

Hello,

Well, I'm continually dreaming of a better/nicer looking piano. I've paid quite a few visits to good and well-assorted piano dealerships over the past years.

Truth be told, at the end of the day all digitals are underwhelming one way or the other. Thus far I never got so excited that I followed through on an actual purchase.

About the LX-6, I do like Roland's build quality, MIDI behavior, and the long action isn't bad for sure. I'm not into the modeled sound that much and can't comment on the speakers; last time I played one I was using my Sennheiser headphones.

When at a store, I find that most of the times I spontaneously stay put the longest behind the CA79, now the CA701. Of course that should tell me something.

All of it is so personal: if you haven't already give yourself plenty of time at one or more good retailers, plan multiple visits, and make your decision carefully.

Cheers,

srodrigo

HZPiano Truth be told, at the end of the day all digitals are underwhelming one way or the other. Thus far I never got so excited that I followed through on an actual purchase.

Thanks! I agree about this. I'm trying to get to terms with the fact that we are compromising by getting a digital (a bit less by getting something like NV10s/12, but even then). It's just what it is.

HZPiano About the LX-6, I do like Roland's build quality, MIDI behavior, and the long action isn't bad for sure. I'm not into the modeled sound that much and can't comment on the speakers; last time I played one I was using my Sennheiser headphones.

To me, action and speakers are the most important things as I tend to play VSTs anyway. I know that modelling isn't for everyone, although I quite like it for its responsiveness when playing things that require fine sound control, but the tone/timbre is tricky. I'd love not to have to use VSTs but that's not happening even on a NV12, I'm sure about that.

HZPiano All of it is so personal: if you haven't already give yourself plenty of time at one or more good retailers, plan multiple visits, and make your decision carefully.

I've done a couple of trips to stores already where I mainly tried Kawais, plus the Rolands and one Yamaha last time. I'm going again this weekend, and possibly once more at least. I'm giving myself plenty of time to try out and decide. It makes me anxious to trade in my ES920 (which has it's own shortcomings) and end up spending money on something that turns out worse haha. So I'll make sure I go tot he store as many times I need before making a final decision.

If only I had room and budget for a NV12, that'd simplify things a lot :')

FREIRE

srodrigo Have you tried CN201 ou CN301? I has a ES920 improved action.

RIP

srodrigo To me, action and speakers are the most important things as I tend to play VSTs anyway.

Rodrigo,
Using internal speakers for VST is a least tricky (to get it right), for a variety of reasons, not last that they are somewhat optimized for the internal sound.
There is a guy on the PianoTeq forum that has "deoptimized" them to make the internal speakers (of an N1X, IIRC) sound good with PTQ. Regardless of what you think of the N1X and PTQ, the technique is applicable to everything, so I suggest you take a look.

srodrigo

FREIRE srodrigo Have you tried CN201 ou CN301? I has a ES920 improved action.

Nope. There was one at the store but didn't try it out. I did have a look at the action on the ES920 in there to compare, same as mine.

RIP Rodrigo,
Using internal speakers for VST is a least tricky (to get it right), for a variety of reasons, not last that they are somewhat optimized for the internal sound.
There is a guy on the PianoTeq forum that has "deoptimized" them to make the internal speakers (of an N1X, IIRC) sound good with PTQ. Regardless of what you think of the N1X and PTQ, the technique is applicable to everything, so I suggest you take a look.

Sounds like it'd require dismantling the DP though?

RIP

srodrigo Sounds like it'd require dismantling the DP though?

Actually I was thinking of something like https://www.roomeqwizard.com/
I think that guy put some objects close to the speakers but as far as I understand he did not "dismantle" the piano?

iternabe

RIP interesting! I use REW to calibrate my home theater speakers. The process starts with using a calibrated mic to take measurements, then you can design a desired frequency response curve, and REW will come up with a set of parametric EQ parameters to be applied via a PEQ capable device (e.g. miniDSP) to achieve that curve.

It works remarkably well for single listening position.

Florian75

First "non-Kawai" picture:

Pete14

Florian75

…..but where are the speaker grilles?

Oh wait, it doesn’t have any speakers!

It’s a beautiful beast, I say!

Florian75

I love it too. It's funny how actual picture from a dealer is much more appealing than the Kawai official pictures. @Kawai, you should change your communication counsel!

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