FLKeys Lachnit MK23

Frédéric L

https://gearspace.com/board/showpost.php?p=13786652&postcount=37

n-player I am also very interested, but the references you provided are just "a random guy on the internet" aren't they?

Most importantly, bandwidth is not speed. Speed is (the inverse of) latency. You can have (and in fact often do have for internet) extremely large band connections, which are horribly "slow" from a latency point of view, to the point of not being usable for anything "real time" (such as video conferencing).

Speaking of bandwidth: suppose one plays semiquavers (sixteenth note) at a speed of quarter-note=180, i.e. 3 quarter notes per second and hence 12 sixteenth note per second. And suppose that one does that with 8 fingers at the same time, or 96 note-on per second. At 3-byte per note-on message, that's 288 bytes per second, counting also the note off it's 576. Put in pedal, double the tempo (if you can play that way) or whatever you want, but that's a far cry from the 31.25Kbaud limit! So as far as I can tell there is absolutely no problem in bandwidth -- however there can be in latency. Even though as @MacMacMac and others have said it's not the MIDI transport the main source of latency.

porco_rosso But I live in an apartment.

Got it (you did not need to provide all of those details 🤣)

I suppose you tried the felt strip and other sound insulation techniques (e.g. sound absorbing materials under the piano casters and between the wall and the soundboard right?) and that was not enough, right?

If so, then digital must be…. perhaps keep what you have for now and save a year or two more to get a NV-5 or N1x?

RIP "Random guy on the internet" linked above has reasonable credentials:

Chairman of MIDI 2.0 Working Group.
Co-Author of USB MIDI.
Member of Technical Standards Board of the MIDI Association.
Consultant for MIDI and Audio Products, Formerly Roland R&D.

porco_rosso Okay. I love acoustic pianos. In Germany I could buy a young (80s, 90s) german upright with the size of 116 - 124 cm of a brand as Schimmel, Grotrian-Steinweg, Ibach or a slightly older (60s, 70s) Bechstein upright for 6000 € - even at good piano stores. Here in Berlin someone at ebay kleinanzeigen sells privately a Steingraeber & Söhne 124 (!) for 6999 € from the 80s in perfectly fine condition. There are plenty of nice pianos here. Availability and price are not the problem. I would be perfectly content with the sound and the action of such an upright. I also have the space (even for grand up to 2m).

But I live in an apartment. A total of 9 residential units live in my house entrance, including a friendly policewoman who often works night shifts and understandably wants to sleep in the mornings. A nice young couple lives above me with a baby who is only a few months old. Below me is a very nice single mother with a behavioral problematic, sometimes aggressive son. Everyone is considerate of each other, that basically works well. And now I'm supposed to (and I've already tried it with a rented Hailun upright...) rob the policewoman of sleep after a night shift in the morning? Or wake the baby in the afternoon? Or upset the boy with repetitive practice of individual passages (he's sick and can't help it) that it is even more difficult for the mother? All of this is much more important than my piano playing. And even if you agree upon on a golden time window from 3:30 p.m. to 4:30 p.m., you don't have exactly that time every day, and an hour is not particularly long if you buy an instrument for thousands of Euros. I would have to move away if in doubt. But that really is not an option. Acoustic pianos are just too loud. I could not play them.

Your description shows a certain unhealthy character trait: You make the problems of strangers your own problems. Sharing a house with people doesn't mean you have to share your life with them. You don't choose your neighbors, but you choose who you share your life with. You shouldn't know all this stuff you mentioned above. You need to set boundaries or you will run into mental health issues at some point.

For example some of us have neighbors too, with some of them having an extensive (noisy) sex life, but if you start thinking about if your neighbors are satisfied with it, that's none of your business. And it's the same with your piano practice.

Overall you are in pretty great spot actually. Where you live an apartment is not considered being a "sleep cell" only like in Japan, the home of the digital piano. Singing and making music is considered being part of living at home, because unlike Asian ant countries, you're not considered to exist only for commuting between work and sleep.

The human voice and acoustic instruments are privileged, as they are allowed to make as much noise as they are physically able to. Only if you introduce electronic amplification, you're limited to the volume of the human voice (and you're supposed to run all your electronic gadgets at that level: your TV, your guitar amplifier and of course your digital piano). But there is no landlord preventing you from putting a concert grand in your flat or simply singing fortissimo after work. Of course, we are considerate people, so we don't go nine-footer, but with a reasonable 42" upright.

Deleted
I'm in a similar situation as @porco_rosso and understand him pretty well. While I basically agree with you that technically other people's problems are their problems, this can lead to everybody just doing what they want and when they want because it will be me sleeping late in the morning (which is what I do since I'm a night owl) and being mad at people making noises without any consideration. I mean, as simplified as it may seem, I try to follow the good old Confucius' advice of "Don't do unto others what you don't want done unto you."

But I'm also working towards moving into a house (outside the capital) where I can have an acoustic piano.

Deleted Your description shows a certain unhealthy character trait: You make the problems of strangers your own problems.

IMHO it's called empathy and it's a good trait to have.

FWIW, I lived in Europe for many years and it's common to know (and worry) about these details. And being limited in the noise one can make, way more than you say in your message. It is pretty common to have such limits sometimes as tacit agreements, sometimes as strictly enforced rules (and anything in between). The "quiet hours" in one place I lived were 16h per day!!!!

As I told @porco_rosso it was unnecessary to post these details on the forum, on that I agree with you, he could have simply said "neighbors" and that would have been enough

n-player "Random guy on the internet" linked above has reasonable credentials:

Ok, thanks for clarifying (it was not clear to me he has those credentials).

In any case, my bandwidth vs latency objections still stand.

RIP it's a good trait to have

It's really bad for your own mental health to make your neighbor's problems your own problems. And by robbing yourself of proper piano practice, you won't improve any of these people, who made their own bad life choices and suffer the consequences. These are not your responsibility.

RIP As I told @eddiepiano it was unnecessary to post these details on the forum

It's not about posting such details on a forum, knowing that much is already completely wrong and calls for counseling. And buying a house won't change anything about that, you're just going to pick up all the problems of your suburban neighbors as well. Don't do that!

Deleted It's really bad for your own mental health to make your neighbor's problems your own problems.

And who told you that? Being empathic or non empathic are personality traits that have almost nothing to do with mental health. Being empathic and attempting to be the opposite, or vice versa, that is what is more probable to cause mental struggles. There are tons of research on the good effect of empathy on mental health, and there is also a even larger TON of research of lack of empathy as hallmark of a myriad of mental disorders.

I agree that high levels of empathy are known to be correlated with anxiety disorders (btw, this effect is normally observed in empathy towards family members or significant others, not towards neighbours) but there is nothing wrong with having normal expression of empathy throughout life. And it is far more difficult to be overempathic than it is to be over apathic.

Deleted Your description shows a certain unhealthy character trait: You make the problems of strangers your own problems.

Joe, being aware of your neighbors' general lifestyle habits is usually unavoidable when you live in such close proximity (the same building), unless you're completely antisocial. Wanting to be considerate is a sign of good mental health (IMO).

God Bless,
David

Deleted Hey Joe,

thank you for being concerned for my mental health. As someone who currently works on his master thesis in psychology I just want to say that this kind oversimplified intuitive everyday "Küchenpsycholgie" (kitchen psychology) without any empirical evidence backing up your claims is not helpful at all. And maybe add that you shouldn't make general assumptions about someone mental health online with a very small snapshot of someones life and give advice on this basis. I can assure you that I am very fine. 🙂

Aprt from that I can just agree David B, vagfilm, CyberGene, and RIP.

As a social being that lives in the same house as my neighbors how can I be not aware of the general living situation of my neighbors? When I rented the Hailun upright I was playing up to 2 hours everyday, sometimes in the mornings between 10:00 and 12:00. Soon the policewoman asked if I was the piano player and asked very friendly if I could play in the afternoons, as she works nightshifts and has to sleep in the mornings. That's a very appropriate question to ask - and of course I don't want to wake her up everyday. And how I would not notice that there is a newborn baby above me or that the boy living in the apartment under me has at least an early stage of a conduct disorder? I don't in any way make the problems of them my problems or share my life in any other with them. But I am just considerate and I due to my experience with the Hailun acoustic upright I know I couldn't fully enjoy it when 8 other units can listen to every note I play. They are just freaking loud. But that's really okay for me, I really don't wish for an acoustic right now.

And why is it a miserable life choice to be as policewoman or to get children…?

HZPiano Hello,

Gamma1734 (who not yet made it over here as it seems), if I understand correctly, solely uses his Kawai Kx00 upright as his MIDI controller -- and loves it that way.

Cheers and happy acoustics,

HZ

Yes, he is using a Kawai E-200 ATX3-L. I think he mentioned somewhere that he had a Kawai CA79/99 or 79/98 before and struggled with the action.

TomLC I wonder if you could buy a 10 yr old K200 silent piano to use with a VST for 5000€?

Maybe I will rent a Kawai silent piano, but honestly a part of me kind of wishes not have to deal with these big, heavy, unmovable instruments.

Maybe there is some confusion here about empathy versus sympathy. Generally, empathy appears to be highly useful for peaceful co-existence with others, whereas sympathy tends to lead people into wild mood swings that IMHO are not healthy in the long run. To the best of my understanding eddiepiano's story is clear evidence of empathy of the very best kind.

CyberGene But I'm also working towards moving into a house

I did that, and I can fully recommend it. There is a flock of birds that make a lot of noise early in the morning, and again in the early evening, but unlike my previous neighbours they don't throw endless parties at night, and they never stomp their feet like madmen. 😃

David B Joe, being aware of your neighbors' general lifestyle habits is usually unavoidable when you live in such close proximity (the same building)

This amount of detail is what you share with a small group voluntarily gathering, not with random tenants your landlord placed next to you.

porco_rosso I was playing up to 2 hours everyday, sometimes in the mornings between 10:00 and 12:00. Soon the policewoman asked if I was the piano player and asked very friendly if I could play in the afternoons, as she works nightshifts and has to sleep in the mornings. That's a very appropriate question to ask

And a very appropriate answer to that is: "No!".

Sometimes you just have to say No to people. 10am is not 10pm. You can't just disappear to always make every stranger happy, who happens to live next to you. If you choose to move into a high density residential setting, you get common quiet hours, you get noisy children at day hours, and you have to deal with it, and others have to deal with you living a life as well.

Deleted And a very appropriate answer to that is: "No!".

Yes it is, that's right. I know they are person who would say this, and they have every right (literally) to do so. But that's not me, and I am ok with this.

On-Topic: Reading gammas post about the action problems with the E-200 in the P515 thread I think now about trying it with Kawai VPC1 once again. I always use VSTs, play >95% of the the time with headphones, the action feels good, it's beautiful and simple, relatively affordable, easier transportable than a furniture dp. And how could be an action that allows performances like this not be good enough for me? 😃

Joe: we can agree that you are not an empathic person. Honestly, that was kind of known well even before the hijack of this thread... Nothing wrong with that, as long as you and others are ok... What I fail to understand is why you care so much about eddie's mental health while proclaming that caring for others well being is not healthy for you...

porco_rosso On-Topic: Reading gammas post about the action problems with the E-200 in the P515 thread I think now about trying it with Kawai VPC1 once again. I always use VSTs, play >95% of the the time with headphones, the action feels good, it's beautiful and simple, relatively affordable, easier transportable than a furniture dp. And how could be an action that allows performances like this not be good enough for me? 😃

I just ordered one, it should be here by tomorrow. I'm very excited. 🙂 The 3000€ saved compared to the NU1X will go to the "Hybrid Controller / Silent Grand Piano" Fund. 😉

porco_rosso Well, well. Hope that turns out satisfactorily for you!

I do not remember what made you sell your VPC1 the first time around?

Cheers and happy actions,

HZ

PS Will it come from Burgebrach?

The first time I had it it felt a bit heavy for me, and I was not 100% satisfied with the velocity response in the lower velocities and the rather short pivot length... But on the other side in general I loved the overall solid feeling, smoothness and speed of the action. The FP-30 feels like a clacky toy compared to the VPC1. When I sold it (to my prof, who had looked for a VPC1 for a while - what a coincidence!) I had second thoughts, but I got exactly the same price I paid, so I had not lost anything. After owning the NU1X and playing more often on the Bechstein Grand of my teacher again (due to corona the lessons were online often) I realized that a) the FP-30 makes it too easy to play in the ppp - p range for me so that the response of the VPC1 might be better / more realistic after all and b) I also got used to the rather short pivot of the NU1X keys. I will try to play the VPC1 now exclusively for two weeks and give me time to adjust my playing to it. Watching and listening all the amazing virtuosic performances with the VPC1 on youtube, even by professionals, made me realize that the VPC1 is definitely more than good enough for my amateurish playing and the fault must be with me. 🙂 Apart from that I just love it's aesthetics and simplicity.

No, from Schongau. 😉 Burgebrach had them yesterday - but today the VPC1 only available in 5 to 7 weeks again.

Edit: Looks like I got the last one / one of the last ones in Schongau too.

porco_rosso The first time I had it it felt a bit heavy for me, and I was not 100% satisfied with the velocity response in the lower velocities and the rather short pivot length...

😀

porco_rosso Apart from that I just love it's aesthetics and simplicity.

That is really true.

porco_rosso I will try to play the VPC1 now exclusively for two weeks and give me time to adjust my playing to it.

Looking forward to hearing your new impressions!