Yamaha NU1X "loud note" fix seems to cause another problem

spanishbuddha It's probably, hopefully, the language, just the words, but this seems a pretty unfriendly and unnecessary response to me, when I was just asking as courteously as I could,

Here we go, I did it twice 😢 one shortly after another. I am sorry if I sounded unfriendly, I really did not intend to at all. The purpose of my poorly written words was (is) to justify my own "insisting" with @porco_rosso further in light of your mention that he might not care anymore. You're fine 👍️ it's me that it's 👎️, sorry. I'll try to be more careful.

CyberGene I have the calibration procedure

Excellent point! Also, it'd be interesting to check if there is any influence of the soft-medium-hard keyboard "weight" which (as we all know) is purely in software, and so might change this behavior. That could be the easier explanation for

spanishbuddha Another NU1X owner on PW reports they cannot reproduce it. The mystery deepens.

(since most people leave it default and @porco_rosso might have set it to a different value).

Also:

CyberGene @eddiepiano, sorry for the obvious question but you make sure you wait until the piano boots up (around 10 seconds) before you start playing it, right?

Also, do you have bright directed light falling at the keys and if so, have you tried temporarily switching it off, using curtains, etc?

is very important (ask me how I know it… I did both mistake) good point @CyberGene for mentioning them 👍️

spanishbuddha eddiepiano although you are returning your unit, I wonder if you are able to persuade the store owner to get a response from Yamaha. I understand if you just want to move on however.

When I told the store owner about the problem he asked me if I could write them an e-mail with a description of the problem. When I called to announce the return of my NU1X he said he already shared the problem with Yamaha. So I think he will try to get a response from Yamaha. Maybe I will hear from him.

EssBrace No doubt I missed it whilst scanning through this thread, but I don't remember reading that the sensor calibration sequence has been run on eddie's piano? Yamaha engineers do it but I think some owners know how to do it.

Thank you for the information. And thank you CyberGene for posting the keyboard calibration. I know it might seem like a obvious solution that something with the calibration is off, but I don't think so. For most of the time, when the error doesn't occur, the sensoring is very accurate, the whole range between 0 - 127 is used very reliably - so the calibration per se seems perfectly fine. It's only flawed when the error occurs, very specifically only when playing ff notes and then very specifically a downgrade to a 80ish Note on velocity, sometimes a few times in a row. I know I cant' exclude it for sure. But I really don't want to experiment with they keyboard calibration and mess something up, because I agreed to return the instrument. I even don't play it anymore and practiced on my Roland because I don't want that another error appears.

CyberGene @eddiepiano, sorry for the obvious question but you make sure you wait until the piano boots up (around 10 seconds) before you start playing it, right?

No need to be sorry! Yes I wait every time until the piano boots up fully. There is this big note on the right side of the keys about it.

CyberGene Also, do you have bright directed light falling at the keys and if so, have you tried temporarily switching it off, using curtains, etc?

No, the room is facing north, so no direct sunlight. And if I play in the evening just regular lights, nothing extra bright in particular.

RIP Excellent point! Also, it'd be interesting to check if there is any influence of the soft-medium-hard keyboard "weight" which (as we all know) is purely in software, and so might change this behavior. That could be the easier explanation for

It's on the default medium weight, I don't change it because it works well.

spanishbuddha Another NU1X owner on PW reports they cannot reproduce it. The mystery deepens.

Yeah, it's interesting. Might be a batch problem!?

I'd like to add that I really enjoy the discussion culture here and the functionality of the forum. Pianoworld seems technically very antiquated in comparison.

porco_rosso spanishbuddha Another NU1X owner on PW reports they cannot reproduce it. The mystery deepens.

Yeah, it's interesting. Might be a batch problem!?

It appears that's the only option left (defect due to pandemic chip shortage, as I speculated earlier). See if you can find out the purchase date of that other instrument.

porco_rosso I'd like to add that I really enjoy the discussion culture here and the functionality of the forum. Pianoworld seems technically very antiquated in comparison.

Thanks for letting us know. Most of us were active PW users until some disagreements and frictions with the moderators and the owner "forced" us to this forum, which @CyberGene initially established only to discuss off-topics subjects which are forbidden in PW. Eventually (as in hindsight was inevitable) we started talking about pianos and music too :-)
Some of us are active or marginally active in PW too, and many use (or used, for the ones who abandoned PW completely) the same nicknames in both places.

Eddie, I understand you are 'disconnecting' from the piano but the calibration process is definitely worth a try. I've had a Yamaha engineer to my place for my N1X which was exhibiting some dropped notes totally intermittently whilst otherwise behaving flawlessly.

EssBrace I've had a Yamaha engineer to my place for my N1X which was exhibiting some dropped notes totally intermittently whilst otherwise behaving flawlessly.

How did they fix it? Was it just the calibration? I think another PW member had this problem and it was fixed by adjusting the hammer sensor rail position through screws along with the corresponding software calibration.

CyberGene

Well the fix has been about 80% successful with the calibration. He's coming back this week and I'll ask him about the hammer sensor rail position. Thanks.

Yeah, I will think about it, even about the return of the NU1X. Maybe it can be fixed as not every NU1X owner has this problem, I don't know. I was a JustMusic again to test some alternatives (I was thinking about a Kawai CA79 or Casio GP 310 or a Roland LX 706) and IMO all DP actions, GF3, PHA-50 and Roland Hybrid, Casio GP fall very short compared to a real action, even this very short and basic one in the NU1X. The let off of the hammers alone is worth every cent in an acoustic piano action.

N1X and NV-10 are so much more expensive, I can't afford them now or in the near future. And I really don't want to practice the next two years on the FP-30 until I could buy them. There are some alternatives like a "Mietkauf" (literally: rentbuy) where I could rent the NV-10S for example for 250€ / month and up to 12 monthly rents would be accounted for if I decide to buy it. But if not… I would loose 6 x 250€ (6 months rent is the minimum) = 1500 + 2 x 250 € transport = 2000€! This seems very expensive - the terms for rents are much, much better for acoustic (silent) pianos (for example a Kawai K-200 ATX4 for 89 € or K-300 ATX 4 for 99 € a month; Yamaha P116 SH2 for 129€/month)… But I don't want an acoustic piano.

It sound like you are like me in that you want something that either does not exist or it's extremely rare or expensive and can't afford it. For example I really wanted a good Janko…. but let's not open that historic thing!

The only solution is to analyze what compromise you can accept. For example I can think of the following ones:

• you can't afford the other hybrids which (might) not have this problem (but might have other ones) -- can you buy it on credit? is it worth, given your financial and pianistic situation?
• you don't "want" acoustic/silent piano, but if you can't afford the other hybrids and you can afford a Yamaha b1-silent, try the latter and go for it if you like the action. Keep it always in silent mode and forget it has strings. FWIW, its resale value in 10+ years will be better than a hybrid, should you ever decide to do so in that timeframe.
• you don't like the non-hybrid actions, but frankly some people prefer them to even the NU1 or NV5, so they must not be "that bad" per se, it's just a preference (I don't know of anybody who prefers them compared to the N1 or NV-10, FWIW). So that's another possible compromise.
• you have this problem with the "quiet note" on the NU1 and have decided to return it, but if all the alternatives are not practical, you can still keep it, particularly if you consider "messing up" with it following the various advice you received here, to figure out if you can find a way out of the problem. After all, in Europe there aren't very many hybrid for sale in the used market, so you can always sell it later at a relatively smaller loss when and if you could afford an NV-10s or whatever (you have to compare this loss to buying the NV-10s now, on credit)
• you can DIY as I mentioned in an earlier message (beware, that is lots of work)
• alternatively you can keep the NU1 and plan on doing the DIY job inside it -- there is plenty of room to install the hammer sensors and Yamaha already has the key sensors (or you can install them yourself, even though there is less room). Way less work that DIY from scratch, and you can do it in a way that's easy to undo and probably it'll be unnoticeable if undone (but it will void the warranty anyway).

That's plenty of options for you to mull about -- and perhaps others can add additional ones.

Hi eddiepiano.

I'm sorry to hear about the problems with your NU1X, it's such a nice instrument when it works. I think the problem you are describing isn't acceptable so the dealer should at least offer you a new unit. As you say that you mostly use virtual instruments one other option besides the ones RIP mention is to look for a used N1 and plan a budget for a full regulation. My guess is that there will also be some used NV-10 on the marked as soon as the Kawai factory are at full speed again. One other option is of course the NV5s even if it's quite pricey. I played one the other day and I think it's a lovely instrument.

If you can rent a Kawai K300 silent upright for 100€ month, that would be my choice. Especially if you already have some decent monitors. Add the Modern U and you have a great action and a great sound. Of course you also have a great acoustic piano.

@porco_rosso I was at JustMusic (again…) and although they have no NV-10(S) (and will not have it for the rest of the year) they had a new NV-5S. The Midi response was perfectly fine and the action very good.

Is JustMusic the same dealer that got you the NU1x? If so, and in case you are leaning towards getting the NV-5s, one tactic you can use is this one. Tell them that Yamaha screw both you and them up, so you must be friends and help each other. You are without the instrument you need, perhaps you sold what you had earlier, and need to take a loan to purchase something else which is more expensive. They have to suffer the expenses of two moves and no profits since you are returning the NU1x. So perhaps they can offer you a better deal than their asking price on the NV-5s? They could bring it to you the same day they pick up the NU1x, so not much additional cost for delivery, but they have to accept price X. Shoot your mouth off with X: something well below their asking price, while still being higher than the NU1x. They will say "no, at most we can do Y", so you need to start lower.

Obviously if the dealers are different, this won't work, unless you convince them to partner with each other, which I don't know how likely it can be (you have to do some background research about them both).

I'm convinced it, the muffled note problem, can be fixed. So, if your relationship with the NU1X has not been soured too much, you could push for getting it fixed and keeping it (as you moot). But that does leave the minimised risk of encountering the loud note problem.

Hey, thank you all for your kind responses!

I called the dealer because I was unsure what to do now. We stick to the decision that I return it. The problem is that there aren't any other NU1X for the next months - they will get a single NU1X unit in the end of January. If there was another NU1X we would have just exchanged it. The dealer said that Yamaha in Germany (Rellingen) is more or less unattended since last year due to the pandemic situation and that the problem description would probably be sent to Yamaha Japan. So the whole response and fixing procedure would take a good while and there is no certainty that the problem could be solved. I also sent him the link to the video and I asked him if he can inform me when he gets some information from Yamaha.

I am bit sad about it, because the NU1X is great instrument! But there are other possibilities. And I don't want to start experiments like trying to install hammer sensors and ruin the warranty or keep the instrument with the uncertainty if it will ever work properly - it's an instruments for 4500 € and I expect it to work, at least in this main aspect (ff input = ff output). And I wouldn't like to sell it sometime in the future to someone with that error.

RIP you can DIY as I mentioned in an earlier message (beware, that is lots of work)

It's something I thought about. I think in Germany it also should be possible to get a proper working action in good shape and/or case of an old grand that is otherwise irreparably (cast iron frame) broken. I just don't have any craftsmanship and technical skills, it would be a very, very long-term project…

RIP It sound like you are like me in that you want something that either does not exist or it's extremely rare or expensive and can't afford it. For example I really wanted a good Janko…. but let's not open that historic thing!

That's true! 😅 But what is A Janko?

RIP you don't like the non-hybrid actions, but frankly some people prefer them to even the NU1 or NV5, so they must not be "that bad" per se, it's just a preference (I don't know of anybody who prefers them compared to the N1 or NV-10, FWIW). So that's another possible compromise.

Yeah I know, I think I saw some people commenting on pianoworld or youtube that they choose the GF3 over the upright action of the NV-5 (which I really can't understand…). But imo my Roland FP-30 is "good enough" for a compromise, so I really don't want to spend another few thousand € for a slightly better compromise. I already had and returned / sold a VPC1 and MP11SE. Then I would rather look for a N1X / NV-10S and

RIP buy it on credit

or buy / rent a

RIP a Yamaha b1-silent

or

TomLC a Kawai K300 silent upright for 100€ month

or

johanibraaten look for a used N1 and plan a budget for a full regulation

These are good options.

johanibraaten One other option is of course the NV5s even if it's quite pricey. I played one the other day and I think it's a lovely instrument.

It is! As RIP mentioned I played it today and I like the action even better than of the NU1X. But it's so close pricewise to a N1X here in Germany, I think I would then tend to the latter.

RIP Is JustMusic the same dealer that got you the NU1x?

Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately this is not the case (and even if it was, due to the very high demand and supply shortage of the hybrid pianos I really doubt that this would work).

I will keep you updated if you like. 🙂

I'm sorry that you have had so much trouble with this; I believe it was me who steered you directly to that faulty NU1X.

QuasiUnaFantasia Haha, I just looked it up on pianoworld, true! No need to be sorry. I think I would have ordered it there anyway. 🙂

Eddie, just run the calibration sequence. You've nothing to lose and it won't cause any damage.

EssBrace Eddie, just run the calibration sequence. You've nothing to lose and it won't cause any damage.

Just to make sure this is clear, that is a simple software procedure, fully supported by Yamaha, with no possible downsides on the warranty or the likes, correct?

porco_rosso Janko?

Ok, you asked for it. Achtung, rabbit hole ahead: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jank%C3%B3_keyboard

porco_rosso And I don't want to start experiments like trying to install hammer sensors and ruin the warranty or keep the instrument with the uncertainty if it will ever work properly

Just to clarify, I was suggesting that you might go that route only if "keeping the NU1" was your chosen option regardless of the modification. Otherwise an otherwise broken upright with decent cabinet and salvageable action would certainly cost less. Then the modification would have been a side project for which you would not need to find a separate action and cabinet, to see where it would lead.

porco_rosso I will keep you updated if you like.

Yes, now we are all curious, please.

CyberGene has attached the instructions above. It's only a series of button presses and you follow a sequence. It's in the Yamaha service manual. That's what I would do anyway. On the other hand I could twist myself into knots over-thinking every single element of the issue. But life's too short.

Hey all, I can understand that you want me to try it the calibration, but as I said before I don't want to experiment now anymore. The instrument will be picked up tomorrow already.

I am not sure about what to get now. I really liked the MP11SE GF1 when I played it a few days ago - somehow even more than the GF3 in CA79. It just doesn't send MIDI velocities under 30 (there was a pianoworld thread about it), but the action itself is wonderful.

My candidates would be the NV5 and the N1X. I think NV10 is just too expensive at more than twice the price of a NU1X.