Modern D vs Pianoteq vs The People

Pete14 To play devil’s advocate, imagine a classical pianist refusing to play a concert on a CFX because “that instrument is better-suited for Jazzers,” and having the production team running out in a haste to find an actual, physical D to haul up into the concert stage and move the already-there CFX out; now, that would be illogical, but you know what? knowing how full of themselves “classical” artists are, I wouldn’t doubt it if Yujas Wang has actually done this:

David Lai To give you a realistic perspective, big concert halls have several concert grands of different companies, and international competitions have a day or two for competitors to choose their favorite pianos for their performances.

Actually these conflicts happens, but it realistically has more to do with sponsorships and economical agreements than actual preferences for a certain brand. I've experienced this at three different occasions. First time was when saw Martha Argerich in Copenhagen about 20 years ago. Before the concert we met the piano technician that worked at that concert. He said that they suggested a Fazioli for the concert as it was the newest and "best" piano they had and the instruments that been used at the most recent concerts but she refused and said that only a Steinway would do. The second occasion was when I saw Chic Corea in the concert hall in Gothenburg (my city of residence). As he is sponsored by Yamaha he refused to play on the Steinway concert grands that they have at the venue. Instead they had to rent a new Yamaha CFIIIS from the towns Yamaha center and transport it to the concert hall. That piano was later sold to school at a reduced price and I have played it, excellent instrument BTW. The third situation was at another concert hall in Sweden. It's a quite new venue, 20 years or so and when they build it they got a new Yamaha CFIIIS as their concert grand. This is a smaller concert hall so they don't have multiple concert grands. From the very first start they've had problems with their decision to get a Yamaha concert grand since so many artists are sponsored by Steinway so they had to rent a Steinway all the time since many of the performing artists couldn't play on their Yamaha grand. A few years ago they decided to sell the Yamaha and get a Steinway instead and that Yamaha is the one I posted a picture of this Friday, an absolutely brilliant instrument. So all-in-all I think this thing with "Steinway or Yamaha or whatever-artists" is pretty ridiculous and I tend to agree with @QuasiUnaFantasia about his statement about Steinway as a company. Great pianos though.

johanibraaten I forgot to mention that aspect, thanks for bringing it up. Yes, Steinway, Yamaha, or Kawaii artists can be difficult for concert halls that are small, you’re right! The situation I described also exists, but this is another side of the situation. But still, not as hell Pete described it.

johanibraaten pretty ridiculous

Yes!!!

Man-oh-man… 🤦

Cheers and… back to the music, down to earth, reconnect with the essence,

HZ

HZPiano

Good luck with that, HZ, for I’ve already proposed to ‘move on,’ but the minute I even dare say that one piano should suffice (even if some people get a few for experimental purposes), and even dare hint that maybe-just-maybe you don’t need that Modern D, all hell comes down on old & frail Pete…..

For a minute I thought the title read “Modern D vs Pianoteq vs The People,” but all they want to talk about is the MD, and how it’s the greatest D ever to be produced (keep in mind that once the next “new & shiny” thing shows up, the MD will suddenly not be so great…..count my words).

Can you believe they’re now accusing me of “becoming Sofia”? The nerve!

But thank god you haven’t gone mad, and yes, neither has CG nor David B (even though they bought the MD). One, CG, because he had the guts to say what’s all the fuzz about this “bunch of recordings,” and the other, David B, because he’s been level-headed and objective (to a certain extent), and less of a fanboy…..

Once again, let us continue with a peaceful discourse, and please allow me to breath; is that too much to ask?

Pete14 and less of a fanboy

He did say he's been enjoying it, and his classy words in describing the tone of the Modern D is quite well put. I enjoyed watching his short and to-the-point review, and I'm glad this piano VST plays well on his Numa GT. So yes, he's well in the camp of those appreciative of what VI Labs is doing.

David Lai He did say he's been enjoying it, and his classy words in describing the tone of the Modern D is quite well put. I enjoyed watching his short and to-the-point review, and I'm glad this piano VST plays well on his Numa GT. So yes, he's well in the camp of those appreciative of what VI Labs is doing.

Okay, that was a respectful response, and I very much appreciate that you appreciated my call for us to use some decorum whence addressing each other, because that’s the only way this discussion can move forward……

Pete14 And I appreciated that you didn't bite back at me, because I corrected you in how you understood David B's thoughts on the new library. Thank you!

David Lai

It seems we’re on our way to a peaceful resolution……😇

Pete14 I certainly hope so.

pianow I feel that the 280VC has a bit more modern oomph right out the box. I prefer it when playing some Liszt type of arpeggios and chords; or some Neo Soul; or Interstellar sort of music. It has a very distinct wood/cabinet sound as well.

So I like the sound. But like almost all the VSLs, the velocity issues for me (out of the box) are problematic compared to the Modern D.

So in this case, what I like most about the 280VC is probably the acoustic piano itself being captured; but as far as capturing the piano tones and making it playable then Modern D by a long shot.

HeartKeys
wow that was a complete answer thank you
i feel like the MD sounds a bit lighter and more open compared to the 280vc
it doesn't have those super sharp high mids which i consider a plus cause it's easier to play such instrument, also it has everything an acoustic piano has to offer, and you say it's very playable outofthebox so i think it's a notch or two above vsl stuff at this point... you know? better recordings, better piano preparation and better scripting.

pianow I agree with the above, as both a former user of VSL and current VI Labs user, I can certainly say to the playability and sound of Modern D.

pianow and you say it's very playable outofthebox so i think it's a notch or two above vsl stuff at this point

yep. after my previous comment, I went back to VSL, and then toyed with the MIDI sensitivity settings. it did sound better. But ultimately, the time and energy spent on making tweaks doesn't excite me.

on another note-- I'm currently using my wife's computer (we switched), because it's an older one. a 2017 Mac (i gave her my M3 iMac, which is overall way faster). so I re-installed VSL into my current 2017 iMac.... and....

... it can only handle the standard mics. as soon as I put in the extra mics, the cracks/pops goes crazy. Even sometimes the standard mics.

With Modern D, I've had no issues (in terms of getting satisfactory sound and playing, without computational challenges).

Which suggests to me, that Modern D is more efficient in its algorithms/coding/instructions/efficiency or whatever it's called, than the VSL software.

Whatever the reason is, I'm a fairly simple guy, who just wants a great piano experience (sound and touch) when playing a VST. I'm pretty tech unsavvy, but discerning in my hearing.

So for that reason, Modern D currently is my go-to. I won't be surprised though, in a few years, something comes out, whether VI, or VSL or some other maker, that blows Modern D out of the water as well. it only continues to get better, and I'm grateful we're at this advanced stage of VST technology!

ps my wish list then, would be, for VI Labs to create a similarly capable software, of the Bechstein D282; Bosendorfer Imperial and 280VC; and a Mason & Hamlin.

David Lai
which vsl piano have you tried? yk except concert d because that one is just awful and obviously no challenger for the moder d
i'm interested 🙂
if i was to choose a synchron now (a single piano from their lineup) that would be the imperial.

HeartKeys yep. after my previous comment, I went back to VSL, and then toyed with the MIDI sensitivity settings. it did sound better. But ultimately, the time and energy spent on making tweaks doesn't excite me.

yea one of the very annoying things about synchron is that you need to spend a lot of time carving them into their best (and not just pianos, all of their products have that to a certain amount)

HeartKeys on another note-- I'm currently using my wife's computer (we switched), because it's an older one. a 2017 Mac (i gave her my M3 iMac, which is overall way faster). so I re-installed VSL into my current 2017 iMac.... and....

... it can only handle the standard mics. as soon as I put in the extra mics, the cracks/pops goes crazy. Even sometimes the standard mics.

it's a little disappointing to see they don't fully work on a 2017 mac cause a machine like that would eat vsts for fun,

HeartKeys With Modern D, I've had no issues (in terms of getting satisfactory sound and playing, without computational challenges).

Which suggests to me, that Modern D is more efficient in its algorithms/coding/instructions/efficiency or whatever it's called, than the VSL software.

they did a fantastic job with their sampling IMO, all the necessary stuff are there and nothing is exaggerated, you have enough samples per note, enough mics and everything and they were smart enough to use normalization on samples so they could use 16bit audio and that i believe is one of the very important thing that makes this piano such a small vst.

HeartKeys So for that reason, Modern D currently is my go-to. I won't be surprised though, in a few years, something comes out, whether VI, or VSL or some other maker, that blows Modern D out of the water as well. it only continues to get better, and I'm grateful we're at this advanced stage of VST technology!

if i wanna speak from experience then i'd say only vilabs people themselves can do that 🙂 and yea... it's an incredible time to be into music.

HeartKeys ps my wish list then, would be, for VI Labs to create a similarly capable software, of the Bechstein D282; Bosendorfer Imperial and 280VC; and a Mason & Hamlin.

damn it, especially the d282, that piano is very underrated in the sampling world, but i donno how they're going to name it... another modern d? haha
and if they decide to sample an imperial i would buy it in seconds, or even a yamaha cfx (oi @VILabs )
but as far as i know it'll take "THEM" half of century to do all that 🙂 and that's ok cause their standards are quite high.

They could create a new series that has less limits for further development. Sampletekk created 4Knob piano series, 4Knob PopD, 4Knob Upright, etc. Synthogy brought in the third generation of Ivory. Toontrack divided drum libs into EZdrummer and Superior Drummer series. NI had Akoustik Pianos series, Classic Pianos series, Definitive Pianos series and several individual piano products. I wish VIlabs could do a Kawai EXPro because Kawai sampled pianos are hard to see. There have been only a few ones over the past 20 years as we know. I have seen five Kawai piano vis, ie Tascam CVPiano, Emotional piano, Acousticsamples Kawai EX, PV Estate Grand Piano, and recently Kawai Legend. There are more Steinway D, Boesendorfer 290 and Yamaha C7 than Kawai, Bechstein and Steingraeber.

Some pianos vis like Noire, Keyscape etc. tend to be favored by producers. Some vis like Garritan CFX, VIlabs, Pianoteq, etc. tend to be favored by pianists or piano players. Some vis like VSL and Synthogy Ivory are welcomed by both producers and pianists. There are many possibilities for future products.

HeartKeys ps my wish list then, would be, for VI Labs to create a similarly capable software, of the Bechstein D282; Bosendorfer Imperial and 280VC; and a Mason & Hamlin.

Agree, 100%. I really hope they keep going and release more models (though hopefully at a somewhat faster clip than before). They seem to have cracked the software side of it better than anyone else, and could really give the VSL Synchron series a run for its money if they had a similar lineup of instruments.

pianow which vsl piano have you tried?

Just the Steinway. But I've heard others, and they didn't really work with me. The 280 VC is too bright, like the Steinway, the Imperial is alright, but no una corda drove me away.

jdg78 Agree, 100%. I really hope they keep going and release more models (though hopefully at a somewhat faster clip than before

i have a feeling that this modern thing is going to be a series and the other ones will come out a lot faster then we would think, maybe they're planning to release a piano every year now, idk why i feel that way but it's a possibility that makes the most sense to me.

jdg78 and could really give the VSL Synchron series a run for its money if they had a similar lineup of instruments

agreed their steinway is ten times better then the vsl's, but that doesn't count cause vsl steinway is one of worst sounding steinways ever at least in my opinion (which i know that I'm not alone with)
i wanna see how much better or comparable their bosy imperial (for example) is going to be
cause i think that's the best vsl piano to date and one of the best virtual piano ever (i also prefer the tone of the syn imperial to the modern d, but the feature set of the modern d to all other virtual pianos)

David Lai
interesting, I'd say if someone is interested in vsl lineup the only pianos that I'd get are the bosy imperial and the bosy 130 upright
my third choice is the f308
but yea... no una corda and resonance modeling makes thems a bit weird especially at that price point (600$💀)
i never understood why they do these things:
1 they don't prepare the instrument at all (tuning and regulation)
2 they have a sampling robot but they only record sus up/down samples (it's so easy for them to sample una corda but they won't)
3 they don't care about improving their existing lineup which is quite significant, even very small features like silent key (which i know for a fact that would take 5 minutes of their time to implement)