Modern D vs Pianoteq vs The People

RIP · 2024-10-05T13:59:24+00:00

As a Sunday clacker (note1) here are my impressions: Modern D may be very good, perhaps even "the ultimate" VST, but it's not for me because it does not have a demo and because I'm fed up with both Mac and Windows computers and I would accept only a Linux version or a tablet (don't say they don't have enough storage or CPU, since some of them have more storage or CPU than my desktop). And by the way, I wonder how this compares with @dore_m Experience pianos rather than the others you mentioned. @David Lai you might tell them this feedback (Linux/Tablet and giving demo) if you care. WRT the demo, some people would say "you can't download 18GB for a demo", so let me pre-emtively respond: a) my download speed allows that pretty easily, and I'm on the cheaper/slower tier of my internet provider, and the vendor could put it on a peer-to-peer network if they can't afford the extra load on their servers b) I would be happy to entertain a demo with say only half the keys working for 9GB, even more "crippled" than the pianoteq demo. Some people love, some people hate Pianoteq. A few (or maybe a lot, but they "look like" they are a few simply because they are just not vocal?) like it for what it is or at least can live with it. I am in the latter category. I agree with what most (or are they just the most vocal?) people on this forum say, i.e. that the sound is unsatisfactory. But then everything else that I could try with a demo or soundcloud recordings (excluding Modern D which I did not have time to listen to) has an unsatisfactory sound too. Each one sound is unsatisfactory in a different way, so I picked the one that I could live with, and which I like for other characteristics (I like its user interface a lot, again, not perfect but much better than others that I tried, it runs on Linux, both Intel and ARM) and policies (I love that they have a demo, which I used to make my mind before deciding to buy it). If you can't live (and let live) with the previous bullet, I'm very sorry for you and I'm not going to engage in a live and let die thread Speaking of which, I'm really appalled to see hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of messages on the Modern D and Pianoteq so devoid of useful content (heck, even devoid of useful opinions!). Well, I'm sure there is some useful content in there, but it's so buried in repeated and repeated and repeated attacks to each other's point of view that makes me really wonder if you guys have a life. I mean we somewhat drove off the site KFB and SP because they flooded the forum with lots of repetitive comments and then we do it ourselves? What a shame! I think this is just a self-feeding trolling, from which we have no way out until "the world will explode" as somewhat I said already so I won't repeat myself (note2) (note1): in Italian, a very common derogatory way of addressing people that do something at a very low level only when they have time, the dictionary says it's the same in English, but I've never heard it in 20 years - so note that I am purposefully insulting myself (note2): that conversation was about an off-topic politics discussion and this is on-topic, but I see the same attitude and it sadden me in the same way, and mutatis mutande I feel about these new threads exactly I expressed at the time, e.g. at the link below. https://pianoclack.com/forum/d/1021-thats-called-whoopin-your-ass/36

CyberGene

Pete14 Sofia hinted that some people even asked to help her ‘round Italy; you know, to sample them pianos real good! 😆

This proves some men have a soft spot for young girls, maybe they liked her in the picture (AI generated, since it was some old man behind that hoax if I recall correctly).

If they were so stupid and thinking with their other head, they may have said they liked her pianos only to impress her. Which is another proof that this was maliciously cunning and manipulative experiment.

David Lai

Pete14 Heck, I’m gonna get to sampling that D right now, and I’ll sell it to you addicts for $100, and make me some easy money!

If you are like that scam Sofia by resampling Pianoteq, then you won’t be hearing impressions and reviews from me. “She” lost me as a customer when I heard the demos and realized what “she” was doing.

So come on, challenge me with an audio demo, and I’ll make my decision!

pianow

Pete14 Oh, but we can……do it all with one piano!

of course we can, when that "one" is an acoustic (especially grands), it has all the different colors for any kind of music. (abd that's why I'm saving money for the future, maybe i can buy a second hand yamaha c7 in 2026)

but vsts are different "recordings" (they're a slice of the piano, not all of it)
some of them are bright, some are thinn, some are warm and most of them don't have all the necessary features, so we need a few of them to do the job (especially for music production),
most guitarists have a few different guitars for different genres.

Pete14 And the proof is in the pudding: Sofia

that was over a year ago, and you still use it as a reference, you know pete? I'm starting to think that sofia is nothing but "yet another" one of your fake accounts here, idk...

Pete14 Yes, a name once beloved ‘round here, yet not so much anymore; after she proved a massive point: it’s all in your head!
i wasn't there you know (not interested in amateurs doing sampling at all - no offence btw), but i can hear pianoteq (modeling) robotic timbre from a mile away, even if it's subtle, that's why i never purchased ivory 3 even though it's a good instrument.

Pete14 I bet you that if I came out with my own VST, “Pete’s Huge D,” there will be many who claim, “I don’t know, but there’s a transparency to Pete’s Huge D that’s just perfect for Bach, but for Liszt I’ll stick to the Modern D….”

another bitchy comment, but alright you can bet on anything you want, but if i was you...

Pete14 Heck, I’m gonna get to sampling that D right now, and I’ll sell it to you addicts for $100, and make me some easy money!

first of all you probably don't even know how to set an amplifier gain level to avoid clipping so don't talk about sampling, thank you.
secondly... a sampled piano from a modeling cultist is probably the scam of the decade, so nobody would give a single dollar for it IMHO😀

Pete14 I will not respond to insults

how sad is that...

David Lai

Pete14 To play devil’s advocate, imagine a classical pianist refusing to play a concert on a CFX because “that instrument is better-suited for Jazzers,” and having the production team running out in a haste to find an actual, physical D to haul up into the concert stage and move the already-there CFX out

To give you a realistic perspective, big concert halls have several concert grands of different companies, and international competitions have a day or two for competitors to choose their favorite pianos for their performances. Moving these pianos are not easy, but unlocked wheels and other things I cannot see would help the movers in the process. Even in universities there are different pianos to choose from. So what you say is completely within doable context and don’t involve another side of town.

There was once a pianist who broke a string on one of the higher registers of the piano at National Center for the Performing Arts in my country few years ago, and another piano rose from mechanisms from the bottom of the stage, or something like that. The piano change took only minutes.

pianow

Pete14 To play devil’s advocate, imagine a classical pianist refusing to play a concert on a CFX because “that instrument is better-suited for Jazzers,” and having the production team running out in a haste to find an actual, physical D to haul up into the concert stage and move the already-there CFX out; now, that would be illogical, but you know what? knowing how full of themselves “classical” artists are, I wouldn’t doubt it if Yujas Wang has actually done this

wow that's an ID 10 T error
the stupidness in this comment equals 3 tsar bombs
as i mentioned:

pianow of course we can, when that "one" is an acoustic (especially grands), it has all the different colors for any kind of music. (abd that's why I'm saving money for the future, maybe i can buy a second hand yamaha c7 in 2026)

but vsts are different "recordings" (they're a slice of the piano, not all of it)
some of them are bright, some are thinn, some are warm and most of them don't have all the necessary features, so we need a few of them to do the job (especially for music production),
most guitarists have a few different guitars for different genres.

David Lai

pianow don’t forget violins. As long as we are talking acoustic instruments, each one has a character that’s fit for a certain context. Of course, there will be instruments that are voiced in a versatile manner, and can play more genres. It seems to me that pianos have been going in this direction for a few years now.

pianow

David Lai
that's a conversation of its own but my piont is that this ID 10 T thinks vsts are equals to the real instruments so we only need one of them in our SSDs lol, of course i don't expect otherwise from a person who thinks pianoteq sounds natural.

johanibraaten

Pete14 To play devil’s advocate, imagine a classical pianist refusing to play a concert on a CFX because “that instrument is better-suited for Jazzers,” and having the production team running out in a haste to find an actual, physical D to haul up into the concert stage and move the already-there CFX out; now, that would be illogical, but you know what? knowing how full of themselves “classical” artists are, I wouldn’t doubt it if Yujas Wang has actually done this:

David Lai To give you a realistic perspective, big concert halls have several concert grands of different companies, and international competitions have a day or two for competitors to choose their favorite pianos for their performances.

Actually these conflicts happens, but it realistically has more to do with sponsorships and economical agreements than actual preferences for a certain brand. I've experienced this at three different occasions. First time was when saw Martha Argerich in Copenhagen about 20 years ago. Before the concert we met the piano technician that worked at that concert. He said that they suggested a Fazioli for the concert as it was the newest and "best" piano they had and the instruments that been used at the most recent concerts but she refused and said that only a Steinway would do. The second occasion was when I saw Chic Corea in the concert hall in Gothenburg (my city of residence). As he is sponsored by Yamaha he refused to play on the Steinway concert grands that they have at the venue. Instead they had to rent a new Yamaha CFIIIS from the towns Yamaha center and transport it to the concert hall. That piano was later sold to school at a reduced price and I have played it, excellent instrument BTW. The third situation was at another concert hall in Sweden. It's a quite new venue, 20 years or so and when they build it they got a new Yamaha CFIIIS as their concert grand. This is a smaller concert hall so they don't have multiple concert grands. From the very first start they've had problems with their decision to get a Yamaha concert grand since so many artists are sponsored by Steinway so they had to rent a Steinway all the time since many of the performing artists couldn't play on their Yamaha grand. A few years ago they decided to sell the Yamaha and get a Steinway instead and that Yamaha is the one I posted a picture of this Friday, an absolutely brilliant instrument. So all-in-all I think this thing with "Steinway or Yamaha or whatever-artists" is pretty ridiculous and I tend to agree with @QuasiUnaFantasia about his statement about Steinway as a company. Great pianos though.

David Lai

johanibraaten I forgot to mention that aspect, thanks for bringing it up. Yes, Steinway, Yamaha, or Kawaii artists can be difficult for concert halls that are small, you’re right! The situation I described also exists, but this is another side of the situation. But still, not as hell Pete described it.

HZPiano

johanibraaten pretty ridiculous

Yes!!!

Man-oh-man… 🤦

Cheers and… back to the music, down to earth, reconnect with the essence,

Pete14

HZPiano

Good luck with that, HZ, for I’ve already proposed to ‘move on,’ but the minute I even dare say that one piano should suffice (even if some people get a few for experimental purposes), and even dare hint that maybe-just-maybe you don’t need that Modern D, all hell comes down on old & frail Pete…..

For a minute I thought the title read “Modern D vs Pianoteq vs The People,” but all they want to talk about is the MD, and how it’s the greatest D ever to be produced (keep in mind that once the next “new & shiny” thing shows up, the MD will suddenly not be so great…..count my words).

Can you believe they’re now accusing me of “becoming Sofia”? The nerve!

But thank god you haven’t gone mad, and yes, neither has CG nor David B (even though they bought the MD). One, CG, because he had the guts to say what’s all the fuzz about this “bunch of recordings,” and the other, David B, because he’s been level-headed and objective (to a certain extent), and less of a fanboy…..

Once again, let us continue with a peaceful discourse, and please allow me to breath; is that too much to ask?

David Lai

Pete14 and less of a fanboy

He did say he's been enjoying it, and his classy words in describing the tone of the Modern D is quite well put. I enjoyed watching his short and to-the-point review, and I'm glad this piano VST plays well on his Numa GT. So yes, he's well in the camp of those appreciative of what VI Labs is doing.

Pete14

David Lai He did say he's been enjoying it, and his classy words in describing the tone of the Modern D is quite well put. I enjoyed watching his short and to-the-point review, and I'm glad this piano VST plays well on his Numa GT. So yes, he's well in the camp of those appreciative of what VI Labs is doing.

Okay, that was a respectful response, and I very much appreciate that you appreciated my call for us to use some decorum whence addressing each other, because that’s the only way this discussion can move forward……

David Lai

Pete14 And I appreciated that you didn't bite back at me, because I corrected you in how you understood David B's thoughts on the new library. Thank you!

Pete14

David Lai

It seems we’re on our way to a peaceful resolution……😇

David Lai

Pete14 I certainly hope so.

HeartKeys

pianow I feel that the 280VC has a bit more modern oomph right out the box. I prefer it when playing some Liszt type of arpeggios and chords; or some Neo Soul; or Interstellar sort of music. It has a very distinct wood/cabinet sound as well.

So I like the sound. But like almost all the VSLs, the velocity issues for me (out of the box) are problematic compared to the Modern D.

So in this case, what I like most about the 280VC is probably the acoustic piano itself being captured; but as far as capturing the piano tones and making it playable then Modern D by a long shot.

pianow

HeartKeys
wow that was a complete answer thank you
i feel like the MD sounds a bit lighter and more open compared to the 280vc
it doesn't have those super sharp high mids which i consider a plus cause it's easier to play such instrument, also it has everything an acoustic piano has to offer, and you say it's very playable outofthebox so i think it's a notch or two above vsl stuff at this point... you know? better recordings, better piano preparation and better scripting.

David Lai

pianow I agree with the above, as both a former user of VSL and current VI Labs user, I can certainly say to the playability and sound of Modern D.

HeartKeys

pianow and you say it's very playable outofthebox so i think it's a notch or two above vsl stuff at this point

yep. after my previous comment, I went back to VSL, and then toyed with the MIDI sensitivity settings. it did sound better. But ultimately, the time and energy spent on making tweaks doesn't excite me.

on another note-- I'm currently using my wife's computer (we switched), because it's an older one. a 2017 Mac (i gave her my M3 iMac, which is overall way faster). so I re-installed VSL into my current 2017 iMac.... and....

... it can only handle the standard mics. as soon as I put in the extra mics, the cracks/pops goes crazy. Even sometimes the standard mics.

With Modern D, I've had no issues (in terms of getting satisfactory sound and playing, without computational challenges).

Which suggests to me, that Modern D is more efficient in its algorithms/coding/instructions/efficiency or whatever it's called, than the VSL software.

Whatever the reason is, I'm a fairly simple guy, who just wants a great piano experience (sound and touch) when playing a VST. I'm pretty tech unsavvy, but discerning in my hearing.

So for that reason, Modern D currently is my go-to. I won't be surprised though, in a few years, something comes out, whether VI, or VSL or some other maker, that blows Modern D out of the water as well. it only continues to get better, and I'm grateful we're at this advanced stage of VST technology!

ps my wish list then, would be, for VI Labs to create a similarly capable software, of the Bechstein D282; Bosendorfer Imperial and 280VC; and a Mason & Hamlin.

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