My Concern with PianoTeq

dickiefunk This new VI Labs Modern does look very promising

one of the very few qualities that pianoteq has is the wooden percussive attack, the only thing that makes me wanna play it sometimes (other then its great playability) is this quality that it has, i find the modern d to have that quality as well (which is rare in sampled instruments for example the most expensive virtual pianos like vsl and synthogy lack that specific rounded but percussive attack)

so when other pianos would drown and dissolve in an arrangement, the modern d would fly over it without any problems, even at ppp range it still offers a significant amount of weight, liveliness and percussive quality, it's not like the lower velocities are some quiet thin-ed out versions of the mezzo forte samples (like most piano libraries), they're alive and full.
vilabs people really deserve the name "audio engineer" and "recording engineer"
this piano is truly a masterfully recorded art (if you know anything about recordings you'd know how perfect it is)

pianow

Thanks for sharing this. This is good to know.

pianow I agree. I think what brings to the clarity of this D is the Renner action, and its implement now on contemporary New York D's. That's why you are hearing such clarity in the attack. This has long been a standing quality on Hamburg Steinways, but now it's also a part of the New York sound.

David Lai

actually the qualities of the piano itself aren't the subject here (although they must be there to begin with)
but 90 percent of the top concert grands have those qualities by default without any kind of preparation.

you don't hear that qualities in sampled (or any virtualized) pianos very often though.

and that brings us to how perfectly fine the vilabs record engineers are, you know? recording all aspects of a one note (aka ultra high quality sampling) isn't an easy thing, it's quite challenging even for experienced record engineers (cause they record music not single notes at a time)
and that's why most virtual pianos always lacking some sides of the sound, they use the same techniques that they'd use in a typical session, to "sample" an instrument, that's not gonna work.
like vsl, they're on the bright and sharp side of the spectrum, the natural warmth and roundness aren't 100% there with any of their pianos, or something like the embertone is the opposite, way too warm and resonant but lacks a lot of liveliness and presence,
some people think recording something is to place some mics wherever you like and hit record and they'll capture everything but that's not the case, trust me.
...recording that balance sound that has everything throughout the whole ranges of the piano (and even in the dynamic range) is simply ART

I'm beginning to respect them a lot, the truekeys series were a little better then the competition, the r275 was even better, but their modern series is nuts, both u and d

like i said masterfully recorded.

sorry that was a lot

pianow And that's how you do a piano library justice, and where PianoTeq lacks. Like I said in the original post, no matter how playable the VST is, the sound is the main factor that decides for me whether to continue using it or not. And now that we have a playable VST that sounds good from VI Labs, my VST search is over! If I want a small sound, I'll pull up Modern U. If I want a rich and warm big sound, I'll do Modern D. That's it for me!

You can never change acoustic pianos without the room, but with a digital setup, I can have whatever I want. 🙂

David Lai
I'm very happy for you and this new piano vi, i personally thought the dream of having a fully, deeply, masterfully sampled grand piano will be a dream forever but I'm glad that i was wrong, I'm kinda excited what's next😃 i just hope it isn't a fazioli, not because i don't like their sound but because of the possible name, modern f💀 that'll be wild

David Lai And now that we have a playable VST that sounds good from VI Labs, my VST search is over!

So you’re saying that we didn’t have a playable (sampled) VST that sounded good before the Modern D?

That’s a bold statement; considering that we see a new thread every single day on how “great,” “playable,” “clear,” and “sounds-just-like-a-D,” etc…”heck, if I had my eyes closed, I’d swear I was playing a huge D.”

And I’m the one living in fantasy-land?

I just pray to the gods that some other sampler releases a “new” D tomorrow, so I can take my point home, get paid, and cash out!

Pete14 I can't speak for David but I really see no contradiction here. Some pianos are more playable than others. Some have more realistic piano sound than others. That's not an on/off state, there's gradation. David found a piano where both the playability and the piano sound earn high marks. And it's here 🙂 Unlike Pianoteq which in your own words will smash the competitors. Once the next version is released.

CyberGene

Perhaps, but this is simply David’s impression, and it would be humbler/clearer if he said “I humbly believe the Modern D to be this & that,” but if you notice above, he says “we;” which implies the whole, the collective, the community, and I, for one, happen to differ with the whole, the collective, and the community on this matter. And I have a suspicion that come the next sampled D many who’ve already spent $200 on The Modern will now be compelled to get this “new” D because, you know, “the una corda is perfect,” or whatever……all I’m asking is that you people think twice before spending your money on yet another VST, and instead save it (your money) for the upcoming N1XA….... of course, it goes without saying, IMHO!

I sometimes wonder if David (the other one) has a few IMHOs in is bag, for it sure seems like he never uses them, and if he’s run out of IMHOs, I’d be happy to send a few his way. I have plenty of IMHOs (unlike some ‘round here).

Again, I can't speak for David but IMO with digital pianos and virtual pianos it's a rabbit hole because they will never be perfect, only the real acoustic piano is perfect (provided it's a quality one of course 🙂). That's why people will always search for the next better virtual or digital piano. And pianos are for playing music, music is emotion, emotion is irrational, hence people sometimes say emotional things that are exaggerated. Unless they are bots. I hope nobody here is a bot 🤖

Pete14 And I have a suspicion that come the next sampled D many who’ve already spent $200 on The Modern will now be compelled to get this “new” D because, you know, “the una corda is perfect,” or whatever……

It's like that with most things I've been into, e.g., guns, guitars, motorcycles, mountian bikes, VSTs, etc. It comes down to personality type and income. My personality type is never content. I always want to try something new. Money is the only thing that holds me back. Some people are more content and unwilling to spend money on something that isn't considered a necessity. Of course, this is really a first world consumer phenomenon. I'm thankful to be part of the experience. 🙂

God Bless,
David

David B you just described me 😀

David B Of course, this is really a first world consumer phenomenon. I'm thankful to be part of the experience. 🙂

This!

There are some people out there, in the poor, still playing a Korg M1, and an even smaller -lucky few- might’ve just saved enough money to buy a 1999 Dell, so even if someone gifted them the Modern D, the Dell wouldn’t be capable of running it; not to mention, that it wouldn’t be able to download it to begin with (no internet connection), and whilst this sounds terrible to us, it might be their “normal;” therefore, they’re not aware of, or bothered by “what’s the newest thing out there,” like “we” are, but rather, they keep playing that Korg M1, and running windows 94 on their new but old Dell.

Perhaps I should be more thankful; even for something as simple as hanging out here; because, once again, that proverbial Dell can’t connect to the internet; however, since they’re not stuck to a screen all day, they probably get better sleep than us, still look up to the skies and marvel at the constellations, milk their own cows, grow their own veggies, and cook their own food with two hands, and not holding a steak in one hand whilst the other types incessantly (like some people I know tend to do)!

Pete14 And I’m the one living in fantasy-land?

Yes, sir, you are.

My statement doesn't need "IMHO," because "my" search is over, not "our!" I'm just saying that there's a now both a playable and good-sounding VST, and I use "we have," as in "there is." Did you not get it? Others like CyberGene got it. Therefore, I don't need to say IMHO. PLus, who is the person who boldly says that PianoTeq is the best? It's you, Pete! You made a very general statement that PianoTeq is the best VI out there, to which I couldn't agree, because the first time I heard and played it, I immediately perceived that I was listening to a synth. And that's the end of PTQ for me!

This Modern D both plays well, like Piano Teq, but unlike PianoTeq, it sounds real, because it was sampled from an actual acoustic D. What could be better than that? Even the evolving waves of resonances are captured. Synthetic resonances, like those done by PianoTeq, sounds like a wall of sound, dead, if you will. Unlike real resonances from an acoustic piano, notes can interact with them in a very musical way. And I feel it finally on here!

There, I think that's enough debating for now. I hope it sounds clear to you that I wasn't making a general statement, only saying that my search was over. Happy reading!

CyberGene Thanks, you said it better than me!

CyberGene ). That's why people will always search for the next better virtual or digital piano. And pianos are for playing music, music is emotion, emotion is irrational, hence people sometimes say emotional things that are exaggerated. Unless they are bots. I hope nobody here is a bot

Again, wow, we agree on this, too. Sometimes I wonder, what in the name of Pete is Pete14 thinking? Can he not understand what sounds good and plays well IS indeed good? If this truth can't be appreciated, then he couldn't understand where I'm coming from, and thus would need me to always say "IMHO."

David Lai

It would’ve been nice if you’d ended this post with IMHO, but you didn’t, now did you?

Pete14 they’re not stuck to a screen all day, they probably get better sleep than us

Well, that's me, and I'm not using tech from the 90s.

But wait… I can't see the screen, I'm blind!!! But for one moment, I found your words resonating a bit, so thank you!

Pete14 And why, pray I ask, do I always need to tag that, while you, can go around parading with PianoTeq? I honestly am puzzled.

Not always, David, but enough to let us know that you’re indeed humble!

Of course, people already know of my humility, but more often than not, I still end with a nice IMHO!

IMHO!