My Concern with PianoTeq

David Lai

actually the qualities of the piano itself aren't the subject here (although they must be there to begin with)
but 90 percent of the top concert grands have those qualities by default without any kind of preparation.

you don't hear that qualities in sampled (or any virtualized) pianos very often though.

and that brings us to how perfectly fine the vilabs record engineers are, you know? recording all aspects of a one note (aka ultra high quality sampling) isn't an easy thing, it's quite challenging even for experienced record engineers (cause they record music not single notes at a time)
and that's why most virtual pianos always lacking some sides of the sound, they use the same techniques that they'd use in a typical session, to "sample" an instrument, that's not gonna work.
like vsl, they're on the bright and sharp side of the spectrum, the natural warmth and roundness aren't 100% there with any of their pianos, or something like the embertone is the opposite, way too warm and resonant but lacks a lot of liveliness and presence,
some people think recording something is to place some mics wherever you like and hit record and they'll capture everything but that's not the case, trust me.
...recording that balance sound that has everything throughout the whole ranges of the piano (and even in the dynamic range) is simply ART

I'm beginning to respect them a lot, the truekeys series were a little better then the competition, the r275 was even better, but their modern series is nuts, both u and d

like i said masterfully recorded.

sorry that was a lot

pianow And that's how you do a piano library justice, and where PianoTeq lacks. Like I said in the original post, no matter how playable the VST is, the sound is the main factor that decides for me whether to continue using it or not. And now that we have a playable VST that sounds good from VI Labs, my VST search is over! If I want a small sound, I'll pull up Modern U. If I want a rich and warm big sound, I'll do Modern D. That's it for me!

You can never change acoustic pianos without the room, but with a digital setup, I can have whatever I want. 🙂

David Lai
I'm very happy for you and this new piano vi, i personally thought the dream of having a fully, deeply, masterfully sampled grand piano will be a dream forever but I'm glad that i was wrong, I'm kinda excited what's next😃 i just hope it isn't a fazioli, not because i don't like their sound but because of the possible name, modern f💀 that'll be wild

David Lai And now that we have a playable VST that sounds good from VI Labs, my VST search is over!

So you’re saying that we didn’t have a playable (sampled) VST that sounded good before the Modern D?

That’s a bold statement; considering that we see a new thread every single day on how “great,” “playable,” “clear,” and “sounds-just-like-a-D,” etc…”heck, if I had my eyes closed, I’d swear I was playing a huge D.”

And I’m the one living in fantasy-land?

I just pray to the gods that some other sampler releases a “new” D tomorrow, so I can take my point home, get paid, and cash out!

Pete14 I can't speak for David but I really see no contradiction here. Some pianos are more playable than others. Some have more realistic piano sound than others. That's not an on/off state, there's gradation. David found a piano where both the playability and the piano sound earn high marks. And it's here 🙂 Unlike Pianoteq which in your own words will smash the competitors. Once the next version is released.

CyberGene

Perhaps, but this is simply David’s impression, and it would be humbler/clearer if he said “I humbly believe the Modern D to be this & that,” but if you notice above, he says “we;” which implies the whole, the collective, the community, and I, for one, happen to differ with the whole, the collective, and the community on this matter. And I have a suspicion that come the next sampled D many who’ve already spent $200 on The Modern will now be compelled to get this “new” D because, you know, “the una corda is perfect,” or whatever……all I’m asking is that you people think twice before spending your money on yet another VST, and instead save it (your money) for the upcoming N1XA….... of course, it goes without saying, IMHO!

I sometimes wonder if David (the other one) has a few IMHOs in is bag, for it sure seems like he never uses them, and if he’s run out of IMHOs, I’d be happy to send a few his way. I have plenty of IMHOs (unlike some ‘round here).

Again, I can't speak for David but IMO with digital pianos and virtual pianos it's a rabbit hole because they will never be perfect, only the real acoustic piano is perfect (provided it's a quality one of course 🙂). That's why people will always search for the next better virtual or digital piano. And pianos are for playing music, music is emotion, emotion is irrational, hence people sometimes say emotional things that are exaggerated. Unless they are bots. I hope nobody here is a bot 🤖

Pete14 And I have a suspicion that come the next sampled D many who’ve already spent $200 on The Modern will now be compelled to get this “new” D because, you know, “the una corda is perfect,” or whatever……

It's like that with most things I've been into, e.g., guns, guitars, motorcycles, mountian bikes, VSTs, etc. It comes down to personality type and income. My personality type is never content. I always want to try something new. Money is the only thing that holds me back. Some people are more content and unwilling to spend money on something that isn't considered a necessity. Of course, this is really a first world consumer phenomenon. I'm thankful to be part of the experience. 🙂

God Bless,
David

David B you just described me 😀

David B Of course, this is really a first world consumer phenomenon. I'm thankful to be part of the experience. 🙂

This!

There are some people out there, in the poor, still playing a Korg M1, and an even smaller -lucky few- might’ve just saved enough money to buy a 1999 Dell, so even if someone gifted them the Modern D, the Dell wouldn’t be capable of running it; not to mention, that it wouldn’t be able to download it to begin with (no internet connection), and whilst this sounds terrible to us, it might be their “normal;” therefore, they’re not aware of, or bothered by “what’s the newest thing out there,” like “we” are, but rather, they keep playing that Korg M1, and running windows 94 on their new but old Dell.

Perhaps I should be more thankful; even for something as simple as hanging out here; because, once again, that proverbial Dell can’t connect to the internet; however, since they’re not stuck to a screen all day, they probably get better sleep than us, still look up to the skies and marvel at the constellations, milk their own cows, grow their own veggies, and cook their own food with two hands, and not holding a steak in one hand whilst the other types incessantly (like some people I know tend to do)!

Pete14 And I’m the one living in fantasy-land?

Yes, sir, you are.

My statement doesn't need "IMHO," because "my" search is over, not "our!" I'm just saying that there's a now both a playable and good-sounding VST, and I use "we have," as in "there is." Did you not get it? Others like CyberGene got it. Therefore, I don't need to say IMHO. PLus, who is the person who boldly says that PianoTeq is the best? It's you, Pete! You made a very general statement that PianoTeq is the best VI out there, to which I couldn't agree, because the first time I heard and played it, I immediately perceived that I was listening to a synth. And that's the end of PTQ for me!

This Modern D both plays well, like Piano Teq, but unlike PianoTeq, it sounds real, because it was sampled from an actual acoustic D. What could be better than that? Even the evolving waves of resonances are captured. Synthetic resonances, like those done by PianoTeq, sounds like a wall of sound, dead, if you will. Unlike real resonances from an acoustic piano, notes can interact with them in a very musical way. And I feel it finally on here!

There, I think that's enough debating for now. I hope it sounds clear to you that I wasn't making a general statement, only saying that my search was over. Happy reading!

CyberGene Thanks, you said it better than me!

CyberGene ). That's why people will always search for the next better virtual or digital piano. And pianos are for playing music, music is emotion, emotion is irrational, hence people sometimes say emotional things that are exaggerated. Unless they are bots. I hope nobody here is a bot

Again, wow, we agree on this, too. Sometimes I wonder, what in the name of Pete is Pete14 thinking? Can he not understand what sounds good and plays well IS indeed good? If this truth can't be appreciated, then he couldn't understand where I'm coming from, and thus would need me to always say "IMHO."

David Lai

It would’ve been nice if you’d ended this post with IMHO, but you didn’t, now did you?

Pete14 they’re not stuck to a screen all day, they probably get better sleep than us

Well, that's me, and I'm not using tech from the 90s.

But wait… I can't see the screen, I'm blind!!! But for one moment, I found your words resonating a bit, so thank you!

Pete14 And why, pray I ask, do I always need to tag that, while you, can go around parading with PianoTeq? I honestly am puzzled.

Not always, David, but enough to let us know that you’re indeed humble!

Of course, people already know of my humility, but more often than not, I still end with a nice IMHO!

IMHO!

Pete14 so even if someone gifted them the Modern D, the Dell wouldn’t be capable of running it

so what? the vsts are tools for producers, and producers don't use windows xp on a 1980 machine,(even bedroom producers use decent computers) it's not like the companies (such as vi labs) intended to make super super resource friendly stuff so even adam and eve can use them with a single core tree
so stop complaining.

Pete14 What a strange way to end a post, IMHO! Maybe we should start saying IMHO all the time, IMHO? Isn't this strange, IMHO?

There, satisfied?

It's not my way of expression, so I won't pretend any longer.

I think, on the contrary, that you are not humble. Because you had the amazing courage to say that PianoTeq is the best VST out there in a sampled VST discussion, and you didn't say IMHO.

"Okay, let’s forget about who’s the best for a minute (Pianoteq), and pay attention to the bigger picture…"

There, these were your own words that inspired this new thread, because I really doubt PianoTeq is the best. In my opinion, and indeed many others, it's not, because though it plays good, it fails big time in sound. And sound is what motivates most of us to play with a VST.

For me, what I search for in a VST partly is what I can't achieve. I don't get access to a concert grand in a big space everyday, and now in the US, I can't access a great acoustic piano everyday. So a good sounding, playable VST is how I'm able to have my practice.

OK, I think I've said enough about this. You should understand where I'm coming from, IMHO.

There, I did it for you, Pete!

Pete14

why? a comment is an opinion
there's no need to address that everytime we write something