Thoughts after Sweetwater Visit

Yesterday, I went to Sweetwater to play pianos and keyboards and listen to speakers. I'll talk about the various thoughts of my journey in this discussion, and I'll divide the sections into individual posts.

1. Pianos & Keyboards

I only looked at the grand pianos in the show room, and none of them are concert grand size. There was Pearl River (a Chinese brand), and the GC series from Yamaha (the Indonesian Yamaha pianos). Their make have increased quality, as both models have working sostenuto pedals, and the GC2 has a warmer sound compared to the other times when I played the same model.

I then looked at the portable slabs and stage pianos. I tried the Casio PX7000, and the keyboard action is as smooth as butter, with very little key noise. The touch screen interface wasn't friendly to my hands, and I didn't know how to turn on or off the instrument. Then I tried the Studiologic Numa X Piano GT, which they had to get from the warehouse and set up for me. The black keys are wider than the SL-88Grand, and the action has improved over that keyboard. The midi response was also very good. I tested on my laptop and Babyface Pro FS setup, running Ivory III German D and Garritan CFX libraries. I have to agree with David B, this action was a joy to play on.

Then it was the Yamaha P525 and P 225, two latest portable slabs. The P525 action is heavier than the P225, and I feel it's generally like my C3 in China. The sound system on the P525 is very good, and its built-in sounds, although basic, served a convenient way for me to have fun with my friends. I think if my VPC1 breaks down one day, I wouldn't mind getting a P-525 from Yamaha, especially now the Yamaha is cheaper than the Kawai, especially when I don't have the space to put an NV10S or N1X in the room.

I also played on the Nord Stage 4 and the Nord Grand, both have average actions, with the Nord Grand having the worse action in my opinion. However, the magical thing is that Nord has better samples than the digital pianos of Yamaha or Kawai, so I enjoyed it from that aspect. The Roland cube monitors mounted to either side of the keyboard provided an immersive playing experience, but I wouldn't have any of these as my daily driver keyboards. Also, the controls are too complicated, and I think for me, learning the panel would be a headache.

My new blind friend who's a Fort Wayne local and went with us on this trip, got inspired and told me on the way back that she'd like to buy a digital keyboard or piano for herself next month, so I guess this self indulging trip to Sweetwater produced another sold customer.

I didn't try any furniture style cabinets, but they do have Yamaha Clavinovas, which I stumbled across and bumped into when I first entered the showroom.

Please see next post for my thoughts on studio monitors.

2. Studio Monitors and Their Various Personalities

I spent about 30 minutes in the Studio and Recording room, listening to the studio monitors they have on display, connected with my laptop and Babyface Pro FS (I don't know how they route the audio, but each monitor fed inputs from my Babyface, amazingly). I heard the music I brought, which meant classical music, orchestral film soundtracks, and 20th century crooners like Frank Sinatra. What I remember they have are the following:

Focal Alpha 65 Evo, Shape 65 and Solo 6s;

IK Multimedia ILoud Precision 6;

Kali Audio LP6 and IN8, second gen;

JBL 305 mark II;

KRK Rokit5 G4;

Yamaha HS8;

Genelec 8040;

Adam Audio T7V;

neumann KH310;

There was a pair of PMC speakers, but I forgot the model. They are about $3000, and has limited bass response. They have a 6.5-inch woofer and gill-shaped tweeters (or something like that). Jason, my guide, led me to feel them, and they are indeed very solid made. There was also a Dynaudio speaker, but I forgot the model.

There are only 2 pairs of 3-way speakers, the Kali IN-8s and Neumann KH310.

This short impression post is based on a serious music listener who's into good music reproduction, and not from an audiophile / hifi view. What I look for is a pair of speakers that I can listen to for a long time, and that reproduce the music and instruments as I remember them from listening to concerts and hearing actual instruments in real life.

We started with the neumanns, and I immediately felt the localization of the instruments and 3D soundstage. However, the not-so-pronounced low frequencies was something I had to get adjusted to when I first started listening. But after a few minutes, and also feeling the sub frequencies of the orchestral bass having unmistakable presence, I understood why these cost $5000 or so per pair, the most expensive of all the speakers. Indeed, they make fun and sustained listening, that I fell in love with them. We then cycled through the various speakers from left to right, some of them I was able to recognize the brand, and a few even the actual speakers themselves. It goes to show even studio monitors are tuned differently, and each company has their own "personality" in manufacturing speakers. Here are some initial impressions:

Kali Audio's LP6 is the best entry level speaker, and its over all performance and response is fun to listen to. The hissing, though improved on V2, can still be heard. Their IN-8s on the other hand, is a point-source monitor that have cut some corners in my opinion. The bass response is not deep enough, and their higher frequencies do not punch like I was expecting. However, the point source experience was unforgettable, and the concentration of the sound was something I noticed as soon as Jason switched to them.

Genelec 8040 and the Dynaudio speakers I heard had a similar profile -- slightly tamed highs and a warm sound. May be a bit on the "bland" side, so certainly only for some select musical genres.

The Yamaha HS8 has this nasal sound which I recognized and disliked when I heard the HS5s in late 2019. The bass was OK, but certainly not good for classical or jazz music.

The Focal Alpha and Shape 65s I loved a lot, but not so much the Solo 6s. The Solos have this sharpness, thanks to the beryllium tweeter in the speakers. These bring punchiness to the vocals and a big band, but when in a long sustained French horn note, or the entire brass section of a symphony orchestra, the sound will become grating and tiring on the ear.

The KRK and JBL all have a spike on the high frequencies, and not as faithful sounding as their expensive counterparts.

The PMCs have a limited bass response, but the mid and high frequencies are so fun to listen to, and the directivity of the speakers is legendary, helping the soundstage experience.

The Adam Audio T7V has a bit of a souped up mid-bass which is good for pop and country music, but doesn't dig deep enough in large orchestral passages. The IK Multimedia Precision 6s is not so precise in my opinion, from what I remember, they roll off very quickly in the high frequencies, but their mid and low end are fine.

All the speakers are sounding out-of-the-box and not tuned, and the room where they are housed in is big and spacious, but not reverberant so as to effect the demos. Of the speakers I heard, I loved the neumann KH310s and the Focal Shape 65s the best, the latter I have in my apartment, but it's not this reason why I love them. The KH310 has the best soundstage and imaging, and the sound profile is fit for long listening sessions. If one get subwoofers to go along with them, it would be a great full-range system.

The Focal Shape 65s have a more pronounced low end compared to the Neumanns, but not hyped. They soundstage and image in the nearfield, as opposed to the near to midfield of the Neumanns, and they are good for a smaller room and limited space setup. For people on a budget, the Kali Audio LP6, Focal Alpha 65 Evo, or even the Adam Audio T7V are good alternatives and have similar sound character to what I'm looking for in a loudspeaker for both listening for fun and occasionally doing recordings and mixing.

So much for now, this is lasting far too long.....

David

Hello,

David Lai ,

Lovely posts, thank you for your time and effort in writing these!

Did you enjoy the trip, friends and store visit?

Cheers and happy spring break (and/or sweet memories of it),

HZ

Thanks for sharing your thoughts! Sounds like a fun visit!

HZPiano Yes, HZ, it was a weekend filled with concerts, friends, games and a trip to Sweetwater. 🙂 And I went parents free!!!

Mindbullets Yes, it sure was a great and insightful visit.

David Lai

Lovely! Glad to hear!

David Lai I tested on my laptop and Babyface Pro FS setup, running Ivory III German D and Garritan CFX libraries. I have to agree with David B, this action was a joy to play on.

I'm glad you tried it with your virtual pianos to get a feel for just the action because the internal acoustic pianos soloed don't sound good in my opinion. They aren't bad layered with other sounds, but on their own, yuck!

David Lai Genelec 8040 and the Dynaudio speakers I heard had a similar profile -- slightly tamed highs and a warm sound. May be a bit on the "bland" side, so certainly only for some select musical genres.

Bland is actually a good way to describe what I hear when I listen to music through my Genelec 8050s. I always add EQ to shape the sound no matter what music I listen to through them. I have a few different EQ settings in my Babyface Pro for different genres.

However, that's also what I like about them. On occasion when I'm mixing music with the 8050s, the final mix sounds good through a number of different audio sources. For mixing the 8050s are great because they give me a very flat and accurate representation of the frequency spectrum, but for just listening to music through them, they can be somewhat bland hence the EQ.

Thanks for sharing your experiences on the trip. It sounds like you had a fun time with good friends.

God Bless,
David

David B Hi David!

Actually, I included the StudioLogic mainly because of you. 🙂 Also, you've wanted me to compare the actions, so I decided to do this for you.

And yes, I guess now we can say that the sound one likes on a pair of studio monitors has a lot to do with the music they listen to. For me, extremely flat Genelecs are not my cup of tea, but when you have pronounced highs on the high-end Focals, I feel tired. What a balancing act!!!

David Lai Kali Audio's LP6 is the best entry level speaker, and its over all performance and response is fun to listen to. The hissing, though improved on V2, can still be heard.

I love my LP8 v2s. Initially, they both had some bad crackling/popping, but Kali sent me another pair of amps to swap out (with newer firmware on them) and they sound much better on the new firmware. I don't notice a hiss myself, but I'm also sitting in an untreated room next to a window so it doesn't mean it isn't there. 🙂

I agree they're an excellent value!

so our david went to sweetwater and now has a girlfriend? or is kawaboi reading too far ahead. 🙃

the magic of sweetwater

kawafanboi Nope! She is a new friend I got to know this January. Actually, her family (including her) and a cellist friend I've known for years invited me to spend this past weekend.

And, when I have a girlfriend or a formal wife in the future, she will not be blind. This is not ablest so please don't take this the wrong way, but practically it's better for the blind person to live with a sighted companion, in my opinion. Navigation and life happenings won't be hard to navigate, and the sighted person will help complement the blind person. That's the last thing I want to say about this.

That's why they call it sweetwater. It's like a candy store.

SouthPark That's why they call it sweetwater. It's like a candy store.

I hide the candy that gets shipped with my orders otherwise my wife eats it all up. Bit-O-honey and taffy are my favorite. 😋

God bless,
David

David B Haha, whenever I buy new audio things from Sweetwater, it's "candy for the whole family!!!"

SouthPark

which part of sweetwater is southpark doing the shopping exactly, out back behind the .. 😏 cash only.

David Lai I'm very happy to hear you had such an awesome experience at Sweetwater! I want to go there now. 🙂

I didn't know they had acoustic pianos! Could you share a bit more about your experience with the Pearl River piano? Did you like it?

navindra I played on a couple of the Pearl Rivers, not my favorite tone, unfortunately. Boxy highs is what I remember most about them. I'd say if at all possible, get a Yamaha to make your money's worth.

David Lai GC2 has a warmer sound compared to the other times when I played the same model

I’ve heard similar feedback from other people too. Apparently Yamaha have made their recent pianos to be warmer sounding.

CyberGene Looks like my feelings are quite consistent, too. Thanks for confirming my thoughts, both you and Kawafanboi!