My pianos *DEBUNKED*

[deleted] Some notes sound electronic, I agree, but I have that issue in CFX Lite as well. Maybe I will buy me the Stage version as a Christmas present.

That's part of evolution. For now, there will be some 'electronic' (eg. tinny) sound in some bits. In the future, I'm sure the pteq crew have targets/aims, and our technology (computer power, speed, memory etc) will let them sort out any tinny sounding bits.

CyberGene P.S. Re-reading my last post above, I really started wondering if Modartt could be behind this 🧐 It’s the only logical explanation for why someone would waste so much effort on proving some silly point in the first place. Otherwise, it would be worrying that an unrelated individual would do it.

I have a really strong suspicion on who I think it is. I won’t say because I don’t have enough evidence or proof, and the numerous dots that connected could also be entirely coincidental. But there’s a lot of dots that connect. And if I’m right, I’m positively baffled about why this would mean so much to them to this level of obsessiveness. I’m also not entirely sure they did it alone or didn’t at least discuss it with some of their likeminded fellows at first.

But I don’t want to get all Sherlock Holmes.

QuasiUnaFantasia I think "Sofia's" more obvious career choices lie in politics, journalism, and marketing for multinational corporations operating above the law.

😂

jdg78 I think "Sofia" should take up fantasy fiction or screenwriting instead. The whole Italian student backstory and role-playing element shows a very active imagination and propensity for character development.

That part of it kind of reminds me of the movie Catfish. Either way, I hope this person puts that talent to good use in the future. It was quite impressive from a story line point of view.

[deleted] I have downloaded the trial version of Pianoteq and... Call me crazy, but I still like the Bluethner, it responds so precisely, it is so evenly modelled, no notes are sticking out and the sound is crisp and clear in my headphones, different from what I have (Vintage D, CFX Light and Dore's pianos) but still great, just different., Some notes sound electronic, I agree, but I have that issue in CFX Lite as well. Maybe I will buy me the Stage version as a Christmas present.

Some say that Pianoteq is better at emulating lesser known pianos or creating its own unique brand piano sound. I’d say this is true. Whatever the “Fazioli” was, I quite liked it.

Taushi And if I’m right, I’m positively baffled about why this would mean so much to them to this level of obsessiveness. I’m also not entirely sure they did it alone or didn’t at least discuss it with some of their likeminded fellows at first.

It's just about time on their/our hands. For example, a lot of us still have some time on our hands. Some people tinkering with hybrid midi, as well as posting on forums, and working on forum software, and playing pianos, and gardening, and all sort of other hobbies.

Lucy certainly impressed Pete, and some others. I'm impressed only in the way that - what Pete mentioned - as in certain pteq dislikers etc turned 180 degree, or that hook-line-sinker thing (get the gaff!!! About to haul up the catch).

It's along the lines of what I was thinking all along. Essence of 'piano'. As long as it sounds and plays good enough to express yourself, and get more or less the message across, then that's good.

I can't imagine Modartt soliciting donations under false pretences.

SouthPark You wrote,

SouthPark Otherwise, hard to say when they will realise that piano music and music isn't necessarily about best sound and best clarity and 'best' piano etc.

Why do you feel people need to "realize" what music is about? Why do you feel people aren't fully understanding it for themselves if they don't see it your way? You might like A and I might like Z. Why not just leave it at that? Why is your opinion more valid than anyone else's so that people should come to a realization about music. Why isn't my opinion real enough for me?

God Bless,
David

David B Why do you feel people need to "realize" what music is about? Why do you feel people aren't fully understanding it for themselves if they don't see it your way? You might like A and I might like Z. Why not just leave it at that? Why is your opinion more valid than anyone else's so that people should come to a realization about music. Why isn't my opinion real enough for me?

I already said it's subjective. But I also said that if some people were born into a third/fifth etc world and couldn't get out of it - even if they wanted to - then they would realise something more important. More special - as in - they don't need 'the best' or be 'the best' etc to make excellent 'best' music.

It's absolutely ok if you stand by your opinion.

Here - it turned out that pteq grabbed the attention of various people -- here in and PW, and had people writing 'excellent' stuff about it. It's a demonstration of a win for pteq. But I also mentioned that I don't use VST, PTeq. I heard them being used/demonstrated. They are indeed very good.

SouthPark It's absolutely ok if you stand by your opinion.

👍

SouthPark It is subjective - that is for sure. I had it covered, as I wrote 'not necessarily about best .....' (to cover everybody). It can be a 'first world' thing. If some of you folks were born into a different world - eg. '3rd' one, and remained there - with no way out even if you wanted out, then ...... different story.

If I had been born in a very poor part of the world, my chances of owning a concert grand (and a suitable studio) would be more or less the same as they are while living in a wealthy part of the world i.e. zero.

What I own is inferior to what I consider to be the best. I have my own reasons for liking what I like. However, I don't really care all that much. I can manage perfectly well with what I have, although it's not perfect.

I don't think I'd ever be satisfied with the sounds of any digital piano (that I've ever heard). I think some sample libraries are very good. The combination of MIDI and decent virtual piano software is very useful to me. I hated my first digital setup from the '90s. It's great to have choice nowadays. Some people have tastes and priorities that are completely different from mine. It's all good.

According to Kurzweil an exponential leap in computing is near (2029), and I do believe modeling will truly come into its own within that time frame, so, whatever it is that ‘some’ find lacking in modeling will be a thing of the past, but sampling has very little time left, so I’d say to you sampling addicts: enjoy it while it lasts, and DO NOT spend all your hard-earned money on samples; because samples are not a good investment for your retirement and will be worth close to nothing upon the singularity. I’d advise you invest your money in AI, automation/robotics, modeling (whence Modartt goes public), 3D-printers, etc..but not in samples.

IMHO,

Pete XIV

Pete thinks that the choice of a piano is a life-changing event. It's not.

Pete thinks that the computing world will see an "exponential leap" in 2029 ... because Kurzweil says so. But does he also believe the world is flat ... because there indeed are people who say so.

@Pete: Please leave such things aside, and return to the humor that has entertained us for so long.

MacMacMac @Pete: Please leave such things aside, and return to the humor that has entertained us for so long.

I thought that's what he was doing. 😀

I see that digital photos will outnumber film photos because of mobile phones and digital cameras. Most music records are samples. Are they worthless? AI is developing faster than ever, will it replace all human beings? Racing games are loaded with hundreds of modelled super sports cars. Will the games replace real experiece of driving a super car? Jokes aside, people have different tastes. No need to force others to accept one's favorite flavors. I will surely be happy to see a better modelled solution, but also believe that samples will coexist with modelled products for a long time. Of course, this opinion could be changed over time.

Also always keep in mind that there is no modelling without previous sampling; the modelling algorithm does not know what to aim for unless it has a specific goal. That goal is provided by samples. (Theoretically, the goal could be chosen in some other way, but the result would not be useful).

Hey, you two! I’ll have you know that Kurzweil is a genius inventor and futurist!

And whilst I use my balls (made of crystal) to predict the future, he uses hard data 📈, and yes, his prediction, “singularity, I say,” was thought preposterous back in the 70s; yet now, those very “experts” are saying, “perhaps he’s right.”

Per freaking-usual, the so-called “experts” claim expertise (redundant, I know), but never get it right, yet in hindsight they will always claim, “oh yes, I always saw the singularity coming; only I needed a little more data to confirm it back then”………BS!

Don’t you see, we’re now talking about AI overtaking us (yes, The Terminator is coming for you), whilst quantum computers will take seconds to figure out a cure for Cancer, Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, and the meaning of it all, “why are we here, Daddy?”

Do you think it a challenge for a quantum-based Terminator 2.0 to figure out the piano?

In half a second AI will figure out the piano, and then what? will you stick to your precious samples running on an outdated thing called a desktop; using nothing but ON/OFF commands; whereas, Q-bits will attack the piano from all angles at the same time (not just 0/1; ON/OFF)?

Don’t say I didn’t warn you:

Start dumping them samples on unsuspecting suckers NOW; whilst the samples are still worth something.

“But Pete, I’ll lose some money if I trade my samples now,” you say; and yes, that is true, but isn’t it better to cut you losses short now instead of losing it all a few years down the road?

P.S.

I’m trying to help you, stubborn samplers, yet what do I get in return? it ain’t love; that’s for sure!

There will be no "singularity". All there will be, unless mankind rises up against the regime, is government-controlled AI (i.e. the only type allowed) used to make people suffer more than their parents did. The regime will for the foreseeable future not change anything about digital piano's, nor about Pianoteq, because these are already providing above average human suffering.

pipAT ….but also believe that samples will coexist with modelled products for a long time….

I’m sorry, Sir, but this is too romantic a notion.

Did the candle coexist with the light bulb; the hand-cranked washing machine with the powered one; the typewriter with the modern ‘keyboard’; Sony’s Walkman with the iPod; the DVD with streaming?

NO!

And please don’t tell me, “but Pete, candles still exist,” for that is a lame argument, because, whilst candles still hang around 🕯️ they are relegated to a nostalgic past, but are no longer relevant in practical terms; that is, unless, you can show me someone with access to lightbulbs preferring the messy -whale sperm based- candle!

Yes, samples will stubbornly stick around, but that doesn’t mean they will “coexist” with modeling, and as with candles, only the nostalgic-romantic will evoke samples from the past whilst the much better, practical, cheaper modeling is available….

P.S.

I ask, when was the last time you saw a pianist perform with a candelabra sitting atop the piano?

I rest my case!

An online buddy from the piano forums (Chummy) did recently write that - technically - recorded acoustic piano music - and broadcasted to us with the 'modern' tech, the acoustic piano becomes a didge piano. And soon, I'm going to be uploading (in a different thread) my first didgeridoo playing hehe ...... where the acoustic didge becomes a didge didge --- aka digital didgeridoo. And yes - I think that even a vacuum cleaner pipe can become a didge as well. Either way - whether we have a vac cleaner pipe or a actual wood pipe, it contributes/contributed toward the 'carbonisation'.

Okay, I’ll put my money where my mouth is!

I’ll bet y’all samplers that modeling overtakes samples by the end of the decade!

I don’t think I’ll be around by then, but I’ll have the executor of my humble estate (a van, one P-515, a stove, a fridge, and some loose change) collect the winnings and donate them to some charity, “the poor chillun of Somalia,” or something like that.

People do blow out candles when they celebrate birthdays. Sometimes birthday cakes could be decorated with LED lights. If you believe AI will replace real pianos or any piano related products, I would have more faith in the unknown Universe and Alien technology. Area 51 and the wars against Aliens. LOL.

pipAT People do blow out candles when they celebrate birthdays

My point exactly!

It doesn’t get more romantic and/or nostalgic than celebrating one’s date of birth, for you see, unlike romantic belief, being born into this (mess) is not something worth celebratin’!

IMHO!