My pianos *DEBUNKED*

I suppose the greatest indication of having a lasting impact on people is that they discuss you when you aren’t even present and, apparently, keep tabs on you, even after having been banned from the space you shared. Whether that’s healthy or not, I can’t say.

But, speak of the devil and he shall appear.

Especially when he’s been a lurker for some time!

_

I was certainly fooled and had very positive things to say about these “instruments”.

But as jdg78 pointed out, that was in the context of these being amateur DIY laptop microphone samples of old imperfect vintage instruments. I never said they were better than the best sampled instruments like Garritan, VSL or VI Labs. I also gave advice on how to make them better if they really wanted to compete with those.

And, for most of us, that aligns with how we’ve always felt about Pianoteq. I, for one, have never said that Pianoteq was an unplayable mess or that it doesn’t sound reminiscent of the instruments it’s emulating. All I’ve ever said was that it doesn’t sound totally authentic, and therefore is of no use to those of us who are hyper-sensitive about authenticity. And that’s still true. If, in order to get us to say good things about it, you have to make up a story that it’s laptop recordings of old and worn vintage instruments with limited layers and shortened sustain…if you have to create a bunch of concessions just to make it believable…have you really contradicted that opinion?

Now I will say my favorite was the “Fazioli”. In fact, I said the Fazioli “Sofia” sampled was better than the very bland and undynamic Fazioli VSL sampled…and I maintain that. Turns out, though, it wasn’t actually a Fazioli at all. I’ve heard people say Pianoteq is better at emulating something other than the big brands. They’re right!

But was I fooled, absolutely! Is it an embarrassment to admit that? No. Who puts that much stock into what people on a message board think about you?

And more to the point, if this actually was some means to get back at people for disliking Pianoteq…the person or persons may want to sit with that, and try to discover why that’s so important to them, and why they would go to such great lengths for…this. What’s it all about, Alfie?

_

Also, a brief correction: I never said Bach was “no more than the result of hyped-up publicity”. Bach is one of the greatest composers of all time, bar none, full stop.

What I *did*, however, say was that the cult of Bach…the idea that he is the over-god of all composers, the greatest composer of all time, the most harmonically advanced composer, upon whose back every single thing after him stands, that every single composer after him cannot touch the hem of his garment…is hyped-up publicity; that perception came from the efforts of his descendants, a nationalist push, and the pedagogical influence he had on the composers after him. And the research & data supports that. And I said that in response to people making statements about Bach that were identical to the cultish statements I used as an example.

You certainly won’t see me uploading audio in every thread proclaiming Bach’s masterpieces were imperfect and that I’ve improved upon it. Or holding grudges about musical disagreements months later and keeping track of those who disagree about my favorite composers.

_

Also, Cybergene I do not believe you were the focus of this. As others pointed out, this was posted on one Linux musician website first, which I suspect was how they tested whether their “instruments” would work. Then they headed straight to PW. Had they been aiming for you, I suspect they’d’ve come straight here.

_

Do I believe the story after the revelation. Absolutely not. The new claimed identity doesn’t even track. Nor am I entirely sure I believe that getting people to compliment Pianoteq was their goal, because why on Earth would anybody care this much about whether people like Pianoteq or not? Why focus on Pianoworld, but not the many other VI sites?

I’m not entirely sure this wasn’t an attempt to get money by selling this as an amateur product. They had a donations page, where several people donated money. And while it wasn’t much, none of that money has been refunded yet based on the page. The person says people can request their money back, but that’s not true. Having used Buy Me A Coffee for projects, the receiver has to refund the money and it shows on the page. The fact that they kept all those donations and haven’t refunded people doesn’t bode well for what their intentions really were.

_

As for who I think it is…if this was just some weird, obsessive attempt to get back at those who have a different opinion about a software none of us have stock in…then I’d suspect it may well be the people we see with odd vendettas obsessively guffawing about it. Could be the ones here or on PW. Some have demonstrated the technical knowledge to have pulled this off. But it seems very personal to that space.

If it was an attempt to make money, who knows.

_

And how’s that for an essay. 😂

Taushi welcome to the forum! And I'm with you on everything you said. Maybe not so much on Bach, but of course I'm biased and I think Pete might have (typically for him) twisted and exaggerated your words. My dear @QuasiUnaFantasia is yet another pal that needs re-education regarding Bach but nobody is perfect 😀 Just kidding, you know.

Well, Well, Well, if it isn’t he whose name I shall not mention (Taushi-GPT).

Yes, I’ve concluded he’s been fooling us all, for you see, “he” is AI!

It finally hit me; how this man can write such robust essays in so short amounts of time, and yes, the answer is he is not like you & I, “he” is AI!

Now, “he” did beat me at my own game, “it’s not an opinion, I say!” And yes, this kept me up for weeks pondering about the why of things; “how on earth could I have lost to this man?” I pondered, but now it’s all clear, I lost to Taushi-GPT (AI).

So yes, even the best get beaten by AI every once in a while:

https://youtu.be/KF6sLCeBj0s?si=YgDYw66kF9UGMaC3

CyberGene Bach is okay, sort of like architecture in a large city is okay. But why he separated all those preludes by all those meaningless fugues is beyond me. Maybe he had piles, or an annoying neighbour, or something. 😁

You people are one of a kind!

Here, Taushi-GPT shows up, and suddenly you all agree with the AI, “Bach sucks,” and no, it’s not lost in me how you all dumped Pete when a 22-year-old Italian beauty showed up, and suddenly I was no longer the prettiest gal ‘round here, “throw him aside; he’s not as pretty as Sofia!”

I thought you’d learned your lessson, but no! And I’ll tell you right now, do not come crying back to me when Taushi-GPT breaks your collective hearts, for if you do, I will further beat on them blood-sucking things y’all call hearts! 💔

haha! oh geez ....... sofia got us, again?!!! I heard of lightning striking in the same spot.

Ok .... that's it! Not this time sofia!!! This is what happens. The paranoia sets in.

Pete14 I will further beat on them blood-sucking things y’all call hearts! 💔

If only someone had done that to Bach, to get the juices going in that organ of his, then maybe he would have skipped those fugues and written something nice instead, like reveries, fantasies, or ballads. 😆

QuasiUnaFantasia all those meaningless fugues

Blasphemy!!! @Pete14 , calling you for an immediate help, we need to perform very dangerous exorcism on Quasi!

CyberGene we need to perform very dangerous exorcism on Quasi!

No need to exorcise the Bach fugues; I relinquish them voluntarily. 😄

So there are 224 posts in this thread now. Could it be that some people in piano forums post too much and play too little?

Concerning the hoax, I never tried Pianoteq before, so it is probably not surprising that I did not recognize it. I still do not understand what "Sofia" was aiming for, what "she" tried to get out of this and why somebody would put so much work into a simple "prank".

[deleted] Could it be that some people in piano forums post too much and play too little?

Well, forums are for posting, not for playing, if we have to be precise 😀

Would any forums exist, if people did not post too much? 😄

We, musicians, are the obsessive type, so, taking that into consideration, NO, we don’t post ‘too much;’ if anything, we don’t post enough!

This here place can be therapeutic for minds that are always obsessing over something, “why are rats hated, yet squirrels loved, aren’t they both rodents?”

Yes, I spent a whole day pondering about rats vs, squirrels, and if I didn’t have this place to vent, laugh, cry, and, very rarely, learn something new, I’d be in a mental institution obsessing over nurses.

“Why are male-nurses picked on, whilst it is completely fine/accepted to be a woman mechanic?”

Before you go all PC on me, I ask, have you ever had a woman ‘repair’ your car? I rest my case!

Pete14 We, musicians, are the obsessive type, so, taking that into consideration, NO, we don’t post ‘too much;’ if anything, we don’t post enough!

Absolutely. We should be posting more for sure. But just don't do that at the other piano place OPP aka PW, or the mods there will get up to their interesting stuff - eg. 30 min in-between-post timeouts to limit our post count ... eg. average per day. And the existing mods there are dodgy actually. That's a genuine comment from me (as usual).

Hi everyone! I had been late to the party partly because I'm busy with some tough school assignment (one more left), but also I wanted to wait till things cooled down a bit before saying things.

When I first got interested in these pianos by Sofia, I began listening to the demos offered on the webpage. And the moment I heard Chopin's Etude Op. 10 No. 1, I was quick to notice the similarity of PianoTeq. In reading some of the thread, I conclude that what I initially guessed was correct. I wasn't surprised it wasn't sampled, and it sounded obviously electronic. So, I guess first impressions matter. I didn't download the libraries and didn't play them, because, again, when I first heard them and concluded it sounds just like PianoTeq (or, later it turned out that it was indeed emulations of the program), I didn't buy into it. 🙂

That's all the comments I have for now. Have a nice day!

David Lai I didn't download the libraries and didn't play them, because, again, when I first heard them and concluded it sounds just like PianoTeq (or, later it turned out that it was indeed emulations of the program), I didn't buy into it. 🙂

I believe you implicitly because your hearing is extraordinary.

God Bless,
David

Taushi I’m not entirely sure this wasn’t an attempt to get money by selling this as an amateur product. They had a donations page, where several people donated money. And while it wasn’t much, none of that money has been refunded yet based on the page. The person says people can request their money back, but that’s not true. Having used Buy Me A Coffee for projects, the receiver has to refund the money and it shows on the page. The fact that they kept all those donations and haven’t refunded people doesn’t bode well for what their intentions really were.

Funny how someone finds the time to write long posts but couldn’t be bothered answering Buy Me a Coffee client service emails.

I’d like to reassure Taushi that his donation (as well as all the others, totaling $55) has already been refunded.

His Christmas is saved.

Sofia_MZ

oh Sofia !

what I wouldn't do to defend yor virtue?

Let me take on this savages my dear!

Sofia_MZ Funny how someone finds the time to write long posts but couldn’t be bothered answering Buy Me a Coffee client service emails.

Welcome back. I personally enjoyed your prank (or whatever it was) and hope you'll stay here for doing other (perhaps more constructive 🤣) stuff, either on this pseudonymous or as another account.

Either or both in the software or hardware, or at the crossroad of both (firmware) there's a lot that people can do here. And by the way, thanks for pointing me to LinuxMusicians, I did not know that and I've enjoyed lurking a (very tiny) bit of it.

Sofia_MZ Funny how someone finds the time to write long posts but couldn’t be bothered answering Buy Me a Coffee client service emails.

I’d like to reassure Taushi that his donation (as well as all the others, totaling $55) has already been refunded.

His Christmas is saved.

Please do not behave as if it’s such a bother and as if you’re somehow being virtuous by returning the money you stole from people through misrepresentation and fraud. And please don’t behave as if you were even ever going to give people their money back if I hadn’t called you out on it, because it was ten (10) days ago that you said the donations “could be returned” but made no effort to do it.

You might have two or three people with obsessive vendettas against PianoWorld patting you on the back for this, and you may think that that somehow excuses what you did, but it doesn’t. Ultimately, the fact of the matter is you stole someone else’s intellectual property, plagiarized it as your own, misrepresented yourself as an identity you claim you “modeled” off some poor unknowing woman, and then crossed the line into financial fraud when you accepted monetary donations for that misrepresentation.

And trying to frame it as some great psychological experiment or some white-knight effort on behalf of poor unfortunate samplists doesn’t pass the smell test. You got more than enough compliments on these “instruments” in the first week that you could’ve wrapped it up there and said “Ha, ha, Pianoteq haters!” Instead, you continued for nearly two months, introduced “new pianos” with new tales, continued developing your backstory, and tried to cater to your base. And you would not have stopped if it hadn’t been pointed out. And it moved well beyond a harmless prank when you took money from people under that representation and even got into private conversations with some of these people as that false identity. I suspect your motivations were far more personal and self-centered than you want to reveal. But on the remote chance you did do all this because a few people on the internet don’t like the same software you like, you have a lot to work through. And that work starts by acknowledging that this was not a good thing.

And yes I did donate. As a full-time artist, I know how much it costs to be an independent artist and even to do art-related things. I have been very lucky to have people and organizations support my work through purchases, grants, philanthropy, and fellowships, and I always pay it forward when I can. Seeing what I perceived to be a passionate young person pursuing their own independent artistic endeavors AND doing something that helped other artists encouraged me to support. Your manipulation of that feeling in me and others does not make you clever: it makes you duplicitous. (And, by the way, I made my donations from a throwaway account with a throwaway email & name and a one-time use virtual card. I always do that whenever I’m donating or supporting via smaller charitable platforms which don’t offer the full security of a GoFundMe or a Kickstarter. So don’t expect much there).

And, the timeline doesn’t support your statements. I, and another member who also donated, reached out to Buy Me A Coffee on December 3rd. We both were told that BuyMeACoffee reached out to you on December 4th. I made my post here on December 7th, only after my name was mentioned by two members. For the record, I never intended to post here or say anything and only reached out to BuyMeACoffee to try to quietly move you to give back what you took from people so as to do what was right and to avoid potential further problems. BuyMeACoffee says the refund was sent through on this morning, December 9th, shortly before you made this post. So, again, please don’t behave as if you had some noble plan in mind all along. I don’t believe you ever had any intention of giving people their money back, and you only did it when we raised the alarm to BuyMeACoffee.

You didn’t save my Christmas by giving the money back; you can be sure that if I had it to give charitably, then it was of no major cost to my pocketbook. You gave it back BuyMeACoffee had been alerted.

I have no desire to pursue things further, or even beat you up about this. I would never have even posted here if my name wasn’t mentioned. We all make mistakes. I said what I said on the subject and I moved on. We all deserve another chance. Nobody should be locked into a mistake, or even be judged by it. But please, do not behave as if what you did was right or even what you claim it was. It is much better to just take stripes in silence, heal what’s broken, and do better in the future.