My pianos *DEBUNKED*

Pete14 wow, who's that Taushi guy? Hopefully he didn't try to correct "mistakes" in Bach 😀

CyberGene wow, who's that Taushi guy? Hopefully he didn't try to correct "mistakes" in Bach

He’s quite the scholarly scholar, and never did I see him lose an argument; not even when he was dead-wrong!

He’s persuasive, I’ll give him that, and his vocabulary seems quite robust; heck, I never saw anyone write a dissenting opinion on the basis of nothing, yet packed with so much (words)!😆

Pete14 Isn’t this the same guy who claimed that my harmonic analysis on “The Moonlight” was no more than a simple one, yet when I confronted him about showing us his analysis, this is what he cooked up:

That's the one Pete. The same guy. The one that tries to overwhelm the 'opposition' by writing essays - or even sometimes -- books, to the point where his 'opposition' stages right after probably not having the time of day (or night) to read the essay or book.

Sophisticated scholar he is. And there was a time when I had to bring him back down to 'earth' for his urge to write essays/books about acoustic pianos are the 'best' or holy grail, and that hybrids were the next 'best' thing, and the rest (the bottom of the 'barrel' stuff) --- have their uses but are 'inferior' (or along that sort of lines) in terms of producing 'real' piano music. I generally don't use the word 'troll'. But that's the way that I saw it, which was the reason why I would put in my five dollars and fifteen cents worth, for purposes of letting him know that the books won't go unanswered.

Pete14 Just recently, I noticed, he called Bach ‘no more than the result of hyped-up publicity’, and that his harmony is “straightforward,” and no longer relevant; wow…..just wow!

ahahaha .... I detect jealousy here. As in, he is jealous of Bach's achievements, and Bach's brilliance, and feels a need to focus on something like this in order to satisfy the book writing (or defense/attack lawyer writing) urge.

Bach, Beet, Cho, Mo, Tchai etc are all well-known brilliant people. Hyped up publicity ..... his foot it is. His foot.

SouthPark there was a time when I had to bring him back down to 'earth' ...

Oh, the irony! 😉

Triple m, that stung you a bit when I mentioned rag doll, and how you now love pianoteq and got taken for a beneficial ride.

I suppose the greatest indication of having a lasting impact on people is that they discuss you when you aren’t even present and, apparently, keep tabs on you, even after having been banned from the space you shared. Whether that’s healthy or not, I can’t say.

But, speak of the devil and he shall appear.

Especially when he’s been a lurker for some time!

_

I was certainly fooled and had very positive things to say about these “instruments”.

But as jdg78 pointed out, that was in the context of these being amateur DIY laptop microphone samples of old imperfect vintage instruments. I never said they were better than the best sampled instruments like Garritan, VSL or VI Labs. I also gave advice on how to make them better if they really wanted to compete with those.

And, for most of us, that aligns with how we’ve always felt about Pianoteq. I, for one, have never said that Pianoteq was an unplayable mess or that it doesn’t sound reminiscent of the instruments it’s emulating. All I’ve ever said was that it doesn’t sound totally authentic, and therefore is of no use to those of us who are hyper-sensitive about authenticity. And that’s still true. If, in order to get us to say good things about it, you have to make up a story that it’s laptop recordings of old and worn vintage instruments with limited layers and shortened sustain…if you have to create a bunch of concessions just to make it believable…have you really contradicted that opinion?

Now I will say my favorite was the “Fazioli”. In fact, I said the Fazioli “Sofia” sampled was better than the very bland and undynamic Fazioli VSL sampled…and I maintain that. Turns out, though, it wasn’t actually a Fazioli at all. I’ve heard people say Pianoteq is better at emulating something other than the big brands. They’re right!

But was I fooled, absolutely! Is it an embarrassment to admit that? No. Who puts that much stock into what people on a message board think about you?

And more to the point, if this actually was some means to get back at people for disliking Pianoteq…the person or persons may want to sit with that, and try to discover why that’s so important to them, and why they would go to such great lengths for…this. What’s it all about, Alfie?

_

Also, a brief correction: I never said Bach was “no more than the result of hyped-up publicity”. Bach is one of the greatest composers of all time, bar none, full stop.

What I *did*, however, say was that the cult of Bach…the idea that he is the over-god of all composers, the greatest composer of all time, the most harmonically advanced composer, upon whose back every single thing after him stands, that every single composer after him cannot touch the hem of his garment…is hyped-up publicity; that perception came from the efforts of his descendants, a nationalist push, and the pedagogical influence he had on the composers after him. And the research & data supports that. And I said that in response to people making statements about Bach that were identical to the cultish statements I used as an example.

You certainly won’t see me uploading audio in every thread proclaiming Bach’s masterpieces were imperfect and that I’ve improved upon it. Or holding grudges about musical disagreements months later and keeping track of those who disagree about my favorite composers.

_

Also, Cybergene I do not believe you were the focus of this. As others pointed out, this was posted on one Linux musician website first, which I suspect was how they tested whether their “instruments” would work. Then they headed straight to PW. Had they been aiming for you, I suspect they’d’ve come straight here.

_

Do I believe the story after the revelation. Absolutely not. The new claimed identity doesn’t even track. Nor am I entirely sure I believe that getting people to compliment Pianoteq was their goal, because why on Earth would anybody care this much about whether people like Pianoteq or not? Why focus on Pianoworld, but not the many other VI sites?

I’m not entirely sure this wasn’t an attempt to get money by selling this as an amateur product. They had a donations page, where several people donated money. And while it wasn’t much, none of that money has been refunded yet based on the page. The person says people can request their money back, but that’s not true. Having used Buy Me A Coffee for projects, the receiver has to refund the money and it shows on the page. The fact that they kept all those donations and haven’t refunded people doesn’t bode well for what their intentions really were.

_

As for who I think it is…if this was just some weird, obsessive attempt to get back at those who have a different opinion about a software none of us have stock in…then I’d suspect it may well be the people we see with odd vendettas obsessively guffawing about it. Could be the ones here or on PW. Some have demonstrated the technical knowledge to have pulled this off. But it seems very personal to that space.

If it was an attempt to make money, who knows.

_

And how’s that for an essay. 😂

Taushi welcome to the forum! And I'm with you on everything you said. Maybe not so much on Bach, but of course I'm biased and I think Pete might have (typically for him) twisted and exaggerated your words. My dear @QuasiUnaFantasia is yet another pal that needs re-education regarding Bach but nobody is perfect 😀 Just kidding, you know.

Well, Well, Well, if it isn’t he whose name I shall not mention (Taushi-GPT).

Yes, I’ve concluded he’s been fooling us all, for you see, “he” is AI!

It finally hit me; how this man can write such robust essays in so short amounts of time, and yes, the answer is he is not like you & I, “he” is AI!

Now, “he” did beat me at my own game, “it’s not an opinion, I say!” And yes, this kept me up for weeks pondering about the why of things; “how on earth could I have lost to this man?” I pondered, but now it’s all clear, I lost to Taushi-GPT (AI).

So yes, even the best get beaten by AI every once in a while:

https://youtu.be/KF6sLCeBj0s?si=YgDYw66kF9UGMaC3

CyberGene Bach is okay, sort of like architecture in a large city is okay. But why he separated all those preludes by all those meaningless fugues is beyond me. Maybe he had piles, or an annoying neighbour, or something. 😁

You people are one of a kind!

Here, Taushi-GPT shows up, and suddenly you all agree with the AI, “Bach sucks,” and no, it’s not lost in me how you all dumped Pete when a 22-year-old Italian beauty showed up, and suddenly I was no longer the prettiest gal ‘round here, “throw him aside; he’s not as pretty as Sofia!”

I thought you’d learned your lessson, but no! And I’ll tell you right now, do not come crying back to me when Taushi-GPT breaks your collective hearts, for if you do, I will further beat on them blood-sucking things y’all call hearts! 💔

haha! oh geez ....... sofia got us, again?!!! I heard of lightning striking in the same spot.

Ok .... that's it! Not this time sofia!!! This is what happens. The paranoia sets in.

Pete14 I will further beat on them blood-sucking things y’all call hearts! 💔

If only someone had done that to Bach, to get the juices going in that organ of his, then maybe he would have skipped those fugues and written something nice instead, like reveries, fantasies, or ballads. 😆

QuasiUnaFantasia all those meaningless fugues

Blasphemy!!! @Pete14 , calling you for an immediate help, we need to perform very dangerous exorcism on Quasi!

CyberGene we need to perform very dangerous exorcism on Quasi!

No need to exorcise the Bach fugues; I relinquish them voluntarily. 😄

So there are 224 posts in this thread now. Could it be that some people in piano forums post too much and play too little?

Concerning the hoax, I never tried Pianoteq before, so it is probably not surprising that I did not recognize it. I still do not understand what "Sofia" was aiming for, what "she" tried to get out of this and why somebody would put so much work into a simple "prank".

[deleted] Could it be that some people in piano forums post too much and play too little?

Well, forums are for posting, not for playing, if we have to be precise 😀

Would any forums exist, if people did not post too much? 😄

We, musicians, are the obsessive type, so, taking that into consideration, NO, we don’t post ‘too much;’ if anything, we don’t post enough!

This here place can be therapeutic for minds that are always obsessing over something, “why are rats hated, yet squirrels loved, aren’t they both rodents?”

Yes, I spent a whole day pondering about rats vs, squirrels, and if I didn’t have this place to vent, laugh, cry, and, very rarely, learn something new, I’d be in a mental institution obsessing over nurses.

“Why are male-nurses picked on, whilst it is completely fine/accepted to be a woman mechanic?”

Before you go all PC on me, I ask, have you ever had a woman ‘repair’ your car? I rest my case!

Pete14 We, musicians, are the obsessive type, so, taking that into consideration, NO, we don’t post ‘too much;’ if anything, we don’t post enough!

Absolutely. We should be posting more for sure. But just don't do that at the other piano place OPP aka PW, or the mods there will get up to their interesting stuff - eg. 30 min in-between-post timeouts to limit our post count ... eg. average per day. And the existing mods there are dodgy actually. That's a genuine comment from me (as usual).

Hi everyone! I had been late to the party partly because I'm busy with some tough school assignment (one more left), but also I wanted to wait till things cooled down a bit before saying things.

When I first got interested in these pianos by Sofia, I began listening to the demos offered on the webpage. And the moment I heard Chopin's Etude Op. 10 No. 1, I was quick to notice the similarity of PianoTeq. In reading some of the thread, I conclude that what I initially guessed was correct. I wasn't surprised it wasn't sampled, and it sounded obviously electronic. So, I guess first impressions matter. I didn't download the libraries and didn't play them, because, again, when I first heard them and concluded it sounds just like PianoTeq (or, later it turned out that it was indeed emulations of the program), I didn't buy into it. 🙂

That's all the comments I have for now. Have a nice day!