Pianoteq is a modelling synth, so I don't know what source samples you think have been repackaged. A sound was made with a synth, recorded and distributed. That's what synths are for, so you should stop calling it illegal and people should stop trying to get the synth creator to take legal action against them.
I never said that pianoteq source samples were copied. I said that I would be upset if someone redistributed MY samples without a license. True, Pianoteq is modeled and, like a synth, might be considered fair game. Except the user license strictly forbids making sample libraries from it.
Jose EB5AGV Now the BIG conspiracy theory… Modartt is behind this hoax!!!
So, yet another half-baked product from them then... 😀
Yes, the samples are not copies of internal data from Pianoteq since this instrument is modelled. However, running Pianoteq implies a copy (from disk to RAM), then it is forbidden excepted in the limits of a licence… and this licence forbids running Pianoteq in the aim to build a sound library. (We can see many fancy licences : number of processors, amount of used RAM…)
CyberGene So, yet another half-baked product from them then... 😀
I downloaded Pianoteq 8 yesterday. I figured it was worth the €25 to upgrade, and as I've started using web based licenses for my other pianos, I want a backup in case the Internet is down.
I thought it was much improved, and then it happened, as it has happened with all the previous versions. Something I can't unhear. I don't know what it is. I can tolerate the Roland modelling -it just sounds dreadfully boring and bland.
Johnstaf I thought it was much improved, and then it happened, as it has happened with all the previous versions. Something I can't unhear. I don't know what it is
Yes! I've always experienced the same phenomenon with Pianoteq. There's a new version and I am usually a hopeless optimist (sure, I want to believe that modeling is better than sampling because the theory says it should be) and I start playing it and for a few minutes I think wow, that's actually not bad at all, much better than before. And then the fatigue kicks in mightily and irreversibly. You said it well, once heard it cannot be unheard 😕
CyberGene I wonder if the problem doesn’t lie in the microphones simulation . Can you try the HB Steinway D jazz close mic presets when you have a chance and confirm that you have the same feeling . The preset uses only one pair of mic .
I have tried as well to change the spectrum profile , and reduce the 7th partial , but it is not the root cause of the ´issue ´
CyberGene When I listened to the "Sofia" piano's, I heard a distortion. With hindsight it is of course the same distortion I hear in Pianoteq, but I assumed at the time that it was due to noise filtering gone too far, with essential sound being removed along with the noise. Now I believe that Pianoteq is simply created with these essential sounds missing from the outset. In other words: Pianoteq lacks high-frequency material that the ear needs to find the sound pleasant, IMO.
Joannchr Can you try
I don't want to sound harsh but I've tried so many tips and recommendations with Pianoteq that never worked, I really have no time to experiment with Pianoteq anymore, at least nowadays when I don't even have enough time to sit at the piano for 10 minutes... 😕 Pianoteq is at the bottom of my list of "giving a chance for the millionth time to something I hate".
QuasiUnaFantasia Now I believe that Pianoteq is simply created with these essential sounds missing from the outset. In other words: Pianoteq lacks high-frequency material that the ear needs to find the sound pleasant, IMO.
That's an interesting theory and I tend to agree. There's something nasal in Pianoteq and we've used that word for ages but if you go back to what makes something "nasal", it's the mid-frequencies. And we should all agree that Pianoteq has high-frequencies. So, it's not nasal because it lack high frequencies, rather it lacks something in the high-frequencies, it lacks life, if you will, and so the mind is pointed at the mid frequencies, hence nasalness.
Moddart/Pianoteq can forbid what they want, it doesn't make doing it illegal.
CyberGene Pianoteq ... lacks life
So, what you are saying is that Pianoteq is like a dead fish which Dr. Frankenstein is running high-voltage through, and it wiggles, but it's still not right? 😄
I'm not going to claim I ever made the Pianoteq connection when I was playing Sofia's pianos, however the model I played the most was the Bechstein (probably because of the very pleasant added reverb) and I always noted this odd, synthetic buzz to the basic tone that I could never quite explain. I assumed that in order to get the noise floor so low, the samples must have gone through some heavy post-editing, and the synthetic sounding artifacts were introduced then. It was the only explanation that made sense at the time.
It's amazing what your brain can get you to accept with the proper conditioning. 😄
CyberGene usually when a sentence starts with ´ I don’t want to sound harsh ‘ the likelihood that it will actually sounds harsh is very high . No worries , not a big deal . Peace ☮️
CyberGene I don't want to sound harsh
I'm sure Pianoteq doesn't either. 🤣
Joannchr usually when a sentence starts with ´ I don’t want to sound harsh ‘ the likelihood that it will actually sounds harsh is very high
Absolutely, which is why I am not saying that I won't sound harsh, but that I don't want (because I don't want confrontation) but it's inevitable that I will sound harsh 😀 So, in other words, it's an excuse why I will inevitably sound harsh: not because I seek it but because there's no other way around it. Or, I am trying to be polite 😉
CyberGene I am just reminded of a problem I have encountered with mp3's of too low bandwith: they make piano sound particularly bad, the low bandwith having a more pronounced effect on piano than anything else, IMO, and I am beginning to suspect that the problem with mp3's (in this respect) is similar to the problem with Pianoteq.
QuasiUnaFantasia there has been a speculation that Pianoteq is not about modeling the piano as an object that produces sound but rather a clever sound compression which works with samples as an input and will then analyze the partials, their amplitude curves with the time, etc., and then when the sound is generated, sine waves will be summed and their amplitudes will be controlled by following the analyzed curves. That's based on the only patent that Modartt have published many years ago. They have recently stated that it's old and they are doing better modeling, however they have never uncovered what that means.
I think many people get confused over what modeling actually is. They imagine that the computer holds a virtual piano model in memory and the mechanical system is modeled with its geometry, materials, moving parts and ultimately we have a virtual hammer striking virtual strings that produce audio. That's called finite analysis and it's been stated that it's so difficult to do it in real time that (if I remember correctly) to produce 1 second of audio from such a model would require 24 hours of intense computation by a very powerful computer. With that in mind, I think the term "modeling" is used pretty vaguely nowadays and in the case of Pianoteq most certainly means (IMO) that they model input audio samples rather than the actual piano object as a mechanical system. Or, in other words, it's more a synthesizer with parameters that allow it to behave like a piano better than a conventional sampler would do. But it's definitely not a physical model the way most people imagine it.
CyberGene I don't think they have gone that route (which is what I would have done, and probably will do). I think they have to simulate the hammer hitting the string, because they have explicit parameters for specifying that part of the process. These parameters would be meaningless if they simply started with a seed waveform.
QuasiUnaFantasia I think they have to simulate the hammer hitting the string, because they have explicit parameters for specifying that part of the process.
That doesn't mean they don't have a glorified sampler underneath. Maybe those parameters are programmed to affect the partial summing, so that it emulates different hammer hardness, etc. As a very simple example, closing the lid is usually just rolling off the high frequencies. Many digital pianos from 20 years ago have that in their parameters and they don't model a lid 😉 Or should we say they model a lid? 🤔 It's just an EQ. Same with those modeling parameters that seem like controlling a finite model underneath. But I highly doubt if that's actually the case.