Personal pronouns, gender, equality, etc.

QuasiUnaFantasia You mean I should add that the politician is from the party that all the other parties have ganged up on?

No, it wasn't my intention that you should mention this. Incidentally, this party is definitely not the one that everyone else has joined.

I only wanted to clarify for those who are not familiar with the German political landscape by whom this "satire" was pronounced.

Wiki.org about AFD:

…Alternative for Germany (German: Alternative für Deutschland; AfD, German pronunciation: [aːʔɛfˈdeː] (listen)) is a German nationalist and right-wing populist political party,[9] ^known for its opposition to the European Union[28] ^{and immigration}.[29] ^It is on the radical right or far right of the political spectrum.[22]^

The concepts of "right wing", and "radical right" are not truly meaningful, since they do no connect to the historical concept of "right wing politics", nor do they say anything specific about political views. So how about just calling things by their most obvious names: The AfD is essentially defined by being anti-EU and anti-immigration, and since recently anti-government COVID policy. Wouldn't you agree that this captures fairly accurately what the AfD is?

And just another thing: why would it matter at all who created that satirical stunt? From my perspective the satire itself is the only thing of importance. Think about the music of Richard Wagner: by most historical accounts Wagner was, on the personal and social level, a really nasty piece of work. But his music is still wonderful, and loved the world over. Should people stop loving his music, because he was an unpleasant person?

QuasiUnaFantasia Wouldn't you agree that this captures fairly accurately what the AfD is?

Unfortunately I cannot agree with this definition of the AFD party.

Unfortunately, this definition does not fully describe the political goals of the party.

How do you rate the statements of a leading AFD politician (Gauland)? .... That national socialism is just a "bird shit" in 1000 years of German history. .... This belittling of one of the greatest crimes of mankind testifies to the ideas that this party pursues.

MBiG I don't approve of his vulgar language, but he has a point, considering national socialism existed as an important factor in Germany for only a tiny fraction of those 1000 years. (And let's not forget that during many of the rest of those 1000 years other forms of terror plagued Germany, so national socialism, as terrible as it was, does not stand as the single bad political event in an otherwise unblemished country).

Everybody keeps saying that the use of non-binary pronouns is an abuse of language.

Now while I also don't agree with the reasons for this particular change of language like most people here, the evolution of language and grammar has been ongoing forever, and that in itself is nothing out of the ordinary. So even if it sounds weird or unpleasant to us now, it will be normal use of language in some years. When it comes to language, usage is the final arbiter.

QuasiUnaFantasia

The (his) attempt (Mr. Gaulands) was clearly made here to play down the Nazi era in the context of German history. As a German who is well aware of his historical responsibility, I think differently about it.

MBiG well aware of his historical responsibility

How do babies become burdened with historical responsibility? You, along with most of the rest of the German population were born after the national socialist era, and none of you can by any stretch of the imagination be claimed to hold any responsibility for a past you could not affect, because you did not exist at the time. Are the grand children of murderers guilty by blood relation?

Monoch Now while I also don't agree with the reasons for this particular change of language like most people here, the evolution of language and grammar has been ongoing forever, and that in itself is nothing out of the ordinary. So even if it sounds weird or unpleasant to us now, it will be normal use of language in some years. When it comes to language, usage is the final arbiter.

I think it's all good when language evolution is not forced and happens naturally. Otherwise, we just happen to come a step closer to Orwell's 1984.

I lived in Soviet Union, where everything, including language, was censored and forced upon people. I can see similar trends creeping in into everyday lives of people living in modern western countries, unfortunately.

A lot of times it's being justified by "greater good" for society or some groups of it. And all you have to sacrifice is a bit of your own personal freedom.

QuasiUnaFantasia

Of course, we Germans as persons are not responsible for the crimes of the previous generations. Likewise, I would not hold anyone from any country responsible for crimes in that country's history.

But the German state, to which I also belong, is responsible for the fact that this part of the story is not played down.

I only say …. lessons learned.

Bad things don't have to happen again, neither in Germany nor anywhere else.

So let us remain critical and vigilant.

MBiG So let us remain critical and vigilant.

Absolutely, I couldn't agree more!

But let's keep everything in perspective, so as to not focus entirely on one historical bad deed, when others also exist.

Please don't go off-off-topic with that AfD crap. Keep the discussion back to off-topic to the previous nonsense! Consider yourself warned! Next time the Banhammer will crush skulls!

On PW we would have been banned into oblivion for this OT. 😆

I agree… One nonsense OT in each nonsense OT thread (wait a minute… Was this thread on topic or off topic to begin with???).

Now seriously: PianoClack is a "piano" forum, and is in serious need of piano-related discussions. I know this is the silly season of piano announcements (no new models will be announced until Christmas, NAMM may be cancelled or reduced, the seasoned PW members that packed and moved their tent here are not going to post something like "Help! suggestions for a digital piano with real action and Steinway tone under 200 dollars… Any ideas?"), but any post somehow related with piano (heck, even pivot length!!!) is needed in order to keep the momentum going. My 2 cents…

Drew-r homo

That's what the diverse, tolerant, peaceful, educated, non-judgmental liberal (I'm independent by the way) do, they label everyone; xenophobe, homophobe, racist, sexist, etc…

The very thing they are against!

vagfilm any post somehow related with piano (heck, even pivot length!!!) is needed in order to keep the momentum going. My 2 cents…

I really like the acceptance here of off-topic (or of any-topic) discussion. But I agree that it'd be nice to read something about pianos once in a while.

Jose EB5AGV So one of those people could begin a discourse addressing people as: "Buenos días a todos, todas y todes" (Good morning to…). And everything should be talked that unnatural way.

It is a so ridiculous and unnecessary way of destroying a wonderful language and making talking extremely slow and dense… but the majority voted them, so enjoy your choice!

It happened something similar in Italy too, some years ago. I think it's aberrant to "force" changes in terms that have a centuries-old historical tradition, only to indulge the whims of some current arrogant politicians. And I think it's aberrant that the mass-media and main newspapers followed these whims with no resistance, although the majority of the population I am sure did not agree with these changes…

MBiG

How do you rate the statements of a leading AFD politician (Gauland)? .... That national socialism is just a "bird shit" in 1000 years of German history.

Holy cow. I knew there was always a lot of drama, but the Adult Beginners Forum really seems to have escalated lately! 🤣

Skropi Lets not complicate things, a man is a he, and a woman is a she. You dont get to choose your genes. And if someone is offended by me calling them as such, they are free to feel however they like, as I am free to use the language as it was intended too.

This. Exactly.

As someone more famous than me has said: My facts don't care about your feelings.

Mikas A lot of times it's being justified by "greater good" for society or some groups of it. And all you have to sacrifice is a bit of your own personal freedom.

Who judges what is the "greater good"?

And exactly why is free speech to be suppressed for some "greater good"?

In my view free speech itself is among the highest forms of the "greater good".

burkey Sex = XX or XY (immutable - at least without serious amounts of CRISPR gene editing!)

Gender = identity (choice)

This sounds like a modern invention. It seems like a ploy to provide a justification for taking offense at our pronouns.

But I'm with Skropi on this. Sex and gender are synonymous.