New Yamaha NU1XA

HZPiano · 2023-09-13T18:31:49+00:00

Hello, A scoop by @ClothEaredNincompoop on PW: Press release: https://www.yamaha.com/en/news_release/2023/23091301/ Some short promo videos on YouTube (more might come): https://www.youtube.com/@yamahaglobal/videos "There's something new regarding the key/hammer sensors: Originally Posted by https://www.yamaha.com/en/news_release/2023/23091301/ Dual sensors detect key and hammer movement separately Yamaha's Articulation Sensor System is used to detect key and hammer movements, offering more accurate interpretation of subtle musical expression during performance. New hammer sensors have been added to more accurately detect timing and strength of hammers hitting the strings. Sensors under the keys accurately determine the stopping point of sounds and other nuances of performance, ensuring that even the most subtle musical expression is preserved."

Pete14

porco_rosso I just played the NU1XA and unfortunately the speaker system on the newer model is far worse. It sounds much more low-fidelity, unclear and mushy than the NU1X, especially in the midrange.

Interesting!

I also noticed a diminished sound quality when comparing the P-525 to the P-515, although, if this makes any sense, the P-525 seemed more musical.

It does not escape me that Yamaha tilted the tweeters for the P-525, and, of course, marketed this as an improvement, yet the P-515 sounds better in terms of fidelity, sound-imaging, and the lower-end (sounds muffled in the P-525).

I really do not understand what’s going on here (especially with the NU1X-A, which is an instrument that excelled in the ‘sound’ department); it doesn’t seem to be a cost-savings decision, because as far as I’m concerned moving a speaker from one position to another would not save them any money, so why do it, if no one was complaining about the sound, but rather raving over it?

I’m really hoping that the unit you tried had been “tweaked” unbeknownst to you, and perhaps someone went crazy with the presets; hence, the result you experienced, but if it turns out that indeed they have messed up the NU1X-A under the pretext of “making it better,” I see a very bad pattern that could lead to the downfall of Yamaha. I wonder, did they replace the previous CEO with a cold-blooded engineer?

P.S.

The AvantGrand is supposed to be their crown-jewel, and if they mess up at that level, it can only trickle down to everything else below, and as I write this I wonder, is the new sensor-mechanism all it’s cranked up to be, or did they F this up too?

P.P.S.

Of course, I’m still hoping the unit you tried was somehow faulty or severely tweaked, and all is good with the NU1X-A, but if it proves true, I’ll be keeping my eye on CASIO for the next big thing (so long as they don’t call it a CASIO).

P.P.P.S

Consider me nervous………

Pete14

Notice, down here, how Tony barely praises the NU1X-A, and this is an info-mercial!

He never says how ‘much better than its predecessor the NU1X-A is’, and rather goes into giving a lame, nuts & bolts review; no genuine excitement did I notice…..once again, consider me nervous:

https://youtu.be/RmElFEJ0z2c?si=PNZIjQMzTrLN6-g2

SouthPark

oh geez …… when I was reading, it nearly said marks the beginning of the end. Touch nwx wood again.

SouthPark

QuasiUnaFantasia It is interesting, but I'm sitting here wondering whether it would not be better to sit this one out and wait for the NU1XA-R, or even for the NU1XA-Rf ...

That's what I normally do heheh. I usually wait for a few iterations/cycles (generations) to make sure it's all good and bugs etc ironed out, as in the electro mag induction sensing system. If nobody reports issues, then a few sleeps (ok … many sleeps) - and P-535. The thought of a (hopefully) stable, reliable/robust, accurate and precise velocity and position sensing system for keys, without the rubber and electrical conductive film wear-out-able parts will be a significant milestone/achievement in piano (digital piano) evolution/history.

The interesting thing is - what they exactly do to monitor and sense the velocities, to have it all working fast enough and reliably (without glitching etc) to handle their 256 polyphony - 'interesting'. Maybe they or somebody will reveal more about the workings of their system later - including calibration and/or keeping it calibrated.

SouthPark

I haven't read this fully yet, but could be related or relevant.

non-contact mag sensor

--- update -- have seen more of it now, and it's not the electro mag induction system.

Pete14

I’m still on the fence, for I’ve not yet tried this instrument, but the more I see/hear, the less convinced I am, and, whilst my enthusiasm started at 100%, it has now dwindled to a meager 65%!

This “review,” down here, talks about the need for less parts in the new sensors, and how this will require less repairs, not be affected by dust/sunlight (optical sensors), etc, yet the skeptic in me sees “less parts” as a cost-saving strategy (less parts = less costs):

https://youtu.be/9dwvUAmW7U8?si=uznQE63KzoP4SNge

I’ve never heard of the optical sensors breaking down frequently, or being affected by dust/sunlight; heck, there still exists GranTouch hybrids using these sensors, and they simply keep on going and going…..

Of course, the “reviewer” is gushing over the ‘3-dimensional’ sound, and how realistic it is, but somehow, I find myself believing Crazy-Eddie.

On the plus side, I loved the N1X, and truly thought it a major improvement over its predecessor, so, if it turns out “new” isn’t all it’s cranked up to be, I could, at some point, snatch an N1X for a serious discount whence the N1X-E is released (according to “Riverton,” within the next year)…..

SouthPark

Pete14 I’ve never heard of the optical sensors breaking down frequently, or being affected by dust/sunlight; heck,

True. If it is sealed up well enough to prevent layers if dust building up within, like dust accumulation on boards in rooms etc, then should be fine. Doesn't seen to be talks of class action, which is very promising. Although, I can understand nervousness too, as optical systems can have the emitters etc pack up or degrade etc. But if these ones are bullet proof, then that's a win, and I'll go all-in later hehe.

MacMacMac

Pete: You'd give up your beloved P515 for an N1X ?
Shocking!

Pete14

I’m seeing a familiar pattern amongst “The Three.”

They’re either re-naming old tech: “Pure Acoustic” now becomes “Piano Reality,” and the “PHA-50” is also bundled into this “reality,” yet neither PA, nor PHA-50 have changed, that is, unless, you believe Roland’s vague rhetoric, “PianoReality is better because we say so,” even though they also admit it’s the same as the previous. What gives, Roland?

So, how can the new Roland action be better if they admit it’s the same PHA-50, now bundled into a vague mess -called PianoReality- that’s supposed to merge all technologies (sound-engine, PHA-50, speakers) into one. I call massive BS!

And based on what Yamaha has shown us so far, I’d say they’ve taken a similar approach; only, it might be much worse…..

These companies have gone into an aggressive cost-saving mode, perhaps due to a decline in demand, and they expect us not to notice?

Well, it is our very duty to notice (what others don’t), and call BS whence it hits us in the face, and I dare predict a very bad, long, and painful dry season…..buckle up, I say!

P.S.

I have a huge hunch that we’d be better off getting previous generation instruments for a discount over the new-yet-not-improved (perhaps even worse) batch coming from the big three:

P-515 over the P-525; NU1X over NU1X-A; previous Rolands over “PianoReality,” etc…

Save your hard-earned money for better times, but be weary of falling for the big three’s current scam, and yes, sadly, this looks like a step back for an industry that barely moves forward, and yes, it saddens me deeply!

kawafanboi

Pete14 pretty straightforward, the Perpetual rebadge continues.

Pete14

kawafanboi

Yes, but this time I honestly think it has taken a turn for the worse…….

I bought the P-515 sight unseen, and was blown away by how much better than its predecessor, yet when I tried the “new” P-525 I was underwhelmed, to say the least, and though I initially wanted to hold on to “it’s more musical,” I simply can no longer look you in the eye and stick to that, for you see, after trying it, I saw a few posts “elsewhere” where some nerds complained about the black keys being slippery, so I had another go at the P-525, and with God as my witness, yes, the black keys are indeed a slippery mess, the lower-mid end is a muffled mess, the key-weight seems to barely change from bottom to top key, and yes, “she” was right, there’s a lessened experience of a sense of “gravity” in comparison with the NWX action…as in having a sense of some form of ‘mechanics’ providing feedback to your fingers…

I am not kidding, if that makes any sense!

SouthPark

The P-525 has grand touch s -- 's' codename probably for soul hehe. They want to make it good for the soul, to change things up. It's sort of like tennis -- where the players have to change surfaces -- eg. clay court, and acrylic, and the old re-bound ace etc. Ok … we'll skip the tennis stuff hehe.

The NWX has substance with the key mechanism feel/touch-weight -- or whatever they call that behaviour/touch profile.

Maybe I can tell Yamaha to include extra features - which might be revolutionary - as in when the P-535 comes out, with the magnet sensors (all working properly and perfected etc), then have the P-535 include the latest CFX and Bosie samples, and also include - as user selectable options -- the P-515 and P-525 sound set (including the exact reverb modes for the P-515 and P-525 -- user selectable that is). But of course, the P-535 will probably have 24 bit sound by then. But on the other hand, I have no problem with 16 bit sound. Won't say no to 24 bit though. Might as well have it if they got it hehe

NU1XA features (the sensors) -- into the P-535. Bullet proofing (aka future proofing).

Pete14

SouthPark The NWX has substance with the key mechanism feel/touch-weight --

This!

RIP

Pete14 These companies have gone into an aggressive cost-saving mode, perhaps due to a decline in demand, and they expect us not to notice?

Pete14

I wonder, is Stu simply serving us a spiced-up Stew, or is there something to his “excitement”:

https://youtu.be/H6NDtTOMMY4?si=NGqPC_0CgHXUJE1e

I’ve rarely seen him gushing over a digital piano, yet that’s exactly what he does with the GP-6 (PianoReality); especially as compared to the previous generation Rolands.

He confirms that the action is the PHA-50, but claims there are improvements; what improvements dost thou speaketh of, Stu; surely, not the sensors?

Actually, yes, he talks about the improved speed & algorithms, and what a ‘huge’ difference these make; the problem with this is that Roland already bragged about ‘the fastest scanners/sensors in town’ with the LX-17 (an instrument I owned), and honestly, I never noticed the “speed,” nor how much better than the previous sensors.

So, what gives, Stu? Did Roland drop a big bag of cash at your front steps, or are you truly that amazed by these new-yet-old instruments?

I tend to like Stu, but the cynic in me can’t help but look back at previous Roland rhetoric, “the fastest scanners in town, I say,” and be seriously doubtful that the improvements are as significant as Stu says.

He also makes a big deal about the speakers and multi-channel this, but, once again, the same was said about the LX-17; which purportedly used six channels and mammoth, ten-inch, subwoofers……

Yes, the bass in the LX-17 was big, but IMHO, it was also artificial and overdone…..

QuasiUnaFantasia

Pete14 he talks about the improved speed & algorithms, and what a ‘huge’ difference these make;

The speed may be speed of calculations. Hardware is one thing, but the measurements obtained must be used through software, and it is actually conceivable that better (and faster) algorithms could be used to somehow improve the experience for the user (which is not to say that it's not all deceitful marketing speak, which a part of me does suspect it to be).

Mike N

Pete14 I bought the GP-6 just before Christmas to replace a 1909 Stieff parlor grand that was getting to be too much to keep playable. I realize that the grand shape is more money than an upright but I couldn’t stand the thought of facing into an upright against a wall.

I’m no more than a low intermediate player but do enjoy the playability of the GP-6. The action is a little heavier than the acoustic but it does repeats just as well if not a little better than the acoustic it replaced.

I’m not the experienced player as all of you here and certainly not as educated into the inner workings of the instruments. I struggled a long time with the choice of either putting more money into the acoustic or going digital and am happy with my decision. If only the digital could converse with me with sympathetic resonation like the Stieff did.

Pete14

Exactly, Quasi, the implication is that this added “speed,” and/or efficiency translates into an overall better playing experience, and Stu isn’t shy about making this point, but, as they say, the proof is in the pudding.

And, sadly, just a little taste of the pudding won’t cut it, but rather one has to try the pudding several times in order to form a somewhat informed judgement; so basically, this “improvement” is subtle and will only grow on you upon playing the instrument frequently and not just a quick run at the dealer.

So yes, I’d like to hear from people who’ve owned the piano for a while; especially those coming from previous-generation Rolands.

P.S.

Stu continues rambling about these improvements; which he calls “immense” in the comments section.

P.P.S.

I still hate Roland!😁

InstrEd

Pete14 P.P.S.

I still hate Roland!😁

No you don't! You are secretly in love with Roland's touch and action. It moves you in a way that gets you all Horny.
The combination of plastic and wood and how it goes up and down is______________________Nevermind😛

Pete14

I’m most certainly not!

Granted, I once had my heart set on the V-Piano (had it not been so darn expensive), but ever since, I’ve only seen Roland stall and raise their prices; perhaps to recoup the losses incurred by the V!

Yes, a winning proposition can indeed lose in the end (V) if not approached strategically, and I believe that’s what happened to the V, and still, in 2024, the tech in that beast has not trickled down to the masses; so much for trickle-down economics!

Remember Jim Carrey’s “The Cable Guy”? surely, this was a “winning proposition,” yet the promoters found a way to screw everything up, and now it’s considered one of his biggest flops, yet IMHO, it is one of his darkest yet funniest movies; directed by the great Ben Stiller, who played two short but crucial characters (brothers) in the pursuit of further exposing our obsession with the banal, sensational, 24\7-CNN-BS! The movie was truly ahead of its time!

P.S.

Roland, isn’t it about time the V-tech found its way into something affordable for the masses? for god’s sake, it’s been about 15 years since, yet still, you won’t let us have another taste of that successful failure aptly named the V-Piano!

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