VI Labs: Modern U Review

HZPiano I was wondering if you'd have made any satisfactory progress in balancing out note volumes from low to high with Modern U? And if so, whether you like the results?

Hi.

Unfortunately I haven't had much time to fiddle with Modern U lately. But I've made some progress with it by adjusting the velocity curve and dynamics to tit the lower registers and "tame" the treble with the eq and tone-knob. As I mentioned earlier I've got the VelPro app to balance the velocity response but haven't had the time to use it yet. My biggest problem with the modern U though is still the C5-C6 region with it's clucking attack…..

johanibraaten It’s a shame you are not liking the Modern U. It sounds and plays really well to my ears (HD600 headphones). It is distinctly an upright sample and I use it for practice. To record, I will most likely use Ravenscroft or the internal SK Jazz/Ballad.

TomLC sounds and plays really well

Hello,

Yes, it is absolutely lovely and it is my no. 1 play/learn/practise piano too.

Yet I do understand @johanibraaten's hesitations, in the octave he mentions I have a bit of reservations as well. For me, the tone knob at -5 substantially mitigates this but if this octave were as totally perfect as everything else in Modern U, it would be even more lovely.

Cheers and the happiest playing,

HZ

@TomLC @HZPiano

I really want to become friends with the Modern U because I want a good upright piano. Right now I'm evaluating VSL:s Bösendorfer upright and in the mentioned areas I think it's better than the Modern U but it has other peculiarities that I'm not too fond of. And as with the other VSL Synchron pianos it is very demanding on computer resources that is a little off-putting…

johanibraaten And as with the other VSL Synchron pianos it is very demanding on computer resources that is a little off-putting…

I love my VSL Bösenderfer Imperial, but I wish it was optimized (Universal binary) for Apple's M1 like the Modern U is, and I wish it was only 10GB like the Modern U instead of 300GB.

VILabs does it right. I wonder why they don't come out with more products?

God Bless,
David

David B wonder why they don't come out with more products?

Hello,

Compared to other companies, this is peculiar indeed.

It may well be their strength: do only pianos, put an abundance of time, effort and love in each of them, and do them well.

Quality over quantity. That is a mindset I cherish and would love to see globally as a new normal.

Cheers and happy enjoying,

HZ

David B I wish it was only 10GB like the Modern U instead of 300GB.

VILabs does it right.

I agree with that, the sound quality of the Modern U is very good. It also has una corda and real string/sympathehtic resonance samples that VSL lacks.

johanibraaten real string/sympathehtic resonance samples that VSL lacks.

Wow, I didn't know VSL doesn't do resonance samples. Does that apply to all their pianos?

In Modern U, those sampled resonances are a delight. They truly sing.

I'm currently toying with NI Noire, which has modeled resonances, and that just isn't it. Same with the Pianoteq demo I tried recently.

Cheers and happy singing,

HZ

HZPiano Wow, I didn't know VSL doesn't do resonance samples. Does that apply to all their pianos?

There is some kind of sympathetic resonance but it is more geared towards how resonance affect the overall sound, not for example producing harmonics from silent keypress. You can have some of that effect if you crank up the symphatetc resonance to maximum level, but it produces a very unnatural effect and is totally useless at that level. The sympathetic resonance in Modern U is very good and it's fascinating that it is 100% sample based.

HZPiano I'm currently toying with NI Noire, which has modeled resonances, and that just isn't it. Same with the Pianoteq demo I tried recently.

On this I have to disagree, I think string resonance is one of Pianoteqs strongest points.

I really think the Grandeur and Maverick are very good instruments though and it never felt like there is really something missing for me with them

Gamma1734 I really think the Grandeur and Maverick are very good instruments though

Me too. I've set aside Vintage D (which was my standard for years) and I'm now using Grandeur exclusively.

Gamma1734 I really think the Grandeur and Maverick are very good instruments though and it never felt like there is really something missing for me with them

I've never tried them but thanks for the tip! I'm quite new to the sample based VI:s so I have a lot to discover 😃 .

Can someone please help me. I read a lot of good things said about this virtual instrument but Im really struggling to make this sound half decent. In fact I find myslef going back to the wonderful ptq Upright U4 all the time. It just sounds very muffled and muddy, particularly in the bass. Just sounds awful. I have RME Babyface and Nord Stage EX. It kinda feels like something is wrong. It cant be this bad. Anyone have any ideas.

MalcolmH Can someone please help me. I read a lot of good things said about this virtual instrument but Im really struggling to make this sound half decent. In fact I find myslef going back to the wonderful ptq Upright U4 all the time. It just sounds very muffled and muddy, particularly in the bass. Just sounds awful. I have RME Babyface and Nord Stage EX. It kinda feels like something is wrong. It cant be this bad. Anyone have any ideas.

The velocity curve and gain curve are essential (for me) in getting a better tone out of the library. My velocity curve is custom and my gain curve is a preset. Unfortunately, I can't show screenshots of my settings because my library is on my external SSD that I left at work. I've tweaked my mic settings recently after getting an idea from someone here on the forum and I feel it's the best sound I've gotten out of the Modern U to date. I'll post screenshots in a few days when I'm back in the office.

God Bless,
David

David B 

Thank you David, much appreciated. I dont think The Nord is doing me any favours. I struggle to get a MIDI value of 110!, same using ptq. But I can get ptq to sound very good in the bass end. I struggle around C5 and above, to loud and strident but like Mac3 I suffer form tinnitus and I think that has a bearing, my hearing is very sensitive. But anyway, Im just very surprised that i find my experience the opposite of most others. Ive dug this out a few times over the past few months and play fro an hour with curves and so on but eventually give up.

The bass of the ModernU is a bit muffled and vaguely wobbly, but that is a character of the sampled upright. The soundboard and room mics help a bit the overall sound. The best part of ModernU is how real it sounds in the top 5 octaves.

vagfilm

Thanks, thats kind of reassuring. The sound of my old Beckstein upright is much much brighter and clearer than the  Modern U. the ptq Upright does a much better job here. Just confused why my experience differs so much. Ah well. Yes Id agree (ish) and say the top 4 octaves are ok. But weirdly I quite enjoy the recordings Ive listened to here. Im not getting that sound at all in the bass. Its c^%p. Im mainly using default, have played around with the other mikes but give up after an hour or so.

Hello,

MalcolmH, Sorry to read you're struggling with Modern U. As vagfilm said, it is a sampled upright piano which of course differs considerably from the more usual Grand libraries. A big fat Grand has bass!! which an upright piano just has not. It just physically can't. And the dynamics are altogether different as well.

I play Modern U daily and when I come across real life tall uprights (if they are good ones) I feel right at home, that's how realistic it is.

Quite early in this thread I wrote several posts outlining how I set things up, maybe some help can be found there:

HZPiano Modern U fan here as well

Cheers and good luck,

HZ

HZPiano

Thanks HZ, All I can say is that my old Bechstein is so much better than whats coming from this Modern U simulation. No comparison. And its why Im so confused because on the PTQ thread there are people saying that the they find the PTQ upright muddy and and muffled in the bass compared to the ModernU and Im finding the opposite is true. Dont understand. Perhaps my download is faulty.

Maybe this is due to terminology subjectiveness 😀
In my view, ModernU can be called "muffled" because it does not have the thunderous and long-lasting bass notes of grand pianos. Using the same engine and sampling team, compare the basses of VSL Bosendorfer Imperial vs the bass from VSL Bosendorfer Upright, or the bass of ModernU to the bass of Ravenscroft274. To many people (me, included) that have no experience with uprights (or grands for that matter) and that relate to piano only from listening to audio recordings, ModernU (or VSL Bos Upright) possesses a tone that does not sound familiar, and that feeling is particularly uncanny in the bass notes.
On the other hand, the Pianoteq "muffleness" is something that affects all pianoteq models and in all regions (particularly in the middle octaves). In all pianoteq models, the bass is overwhelming, the middle muffled/nasal, and the upper octaves are piercing and shrill. Within the pianoteq models, I find the U4 less resonant in the upper octaves with a simpler harmonic content compared to other pianoteq grand models (Petrof Mistral, for example), but the bass notes are very grand like (almost unrealistic when compared with the sampled uprights that I know).
Of course, this is all subjective... If anyone could pinpoint what exactly could be done better in pianoteq, it would have been done by now and the sampled pianos would be history...