Casio Privia vs Kawai ES120

MacMacMac

Austin_D I think you've goaded him into returning here. 😦

Pete14

I’m having trouble understanding this crowd, really!

On the one hand we’re supposed to be all about ‘everything goes’ around here, but then we’re also acting very much like PW by suggesting that ‘certain people’ shan’t be mentioned or motivated to participate; because…. whatever!

I’m of the variety that truly believes that the appearance of the absurd is simply brought about by those who entertain it for a while, the apparent absurdity, and then ditch it when not in the mood ‘for nonsense.’

Who cares if KFB’s calibration drift is real, so long as it sparks a conversation?

Who cares if he says the RHC action is better than a Renner?

And if “Timmy” doesn’t buy a Kawai because KFB said “calibration drift,” that’s on Timmy.

I’m fine with those that are all about “sharing,” and enlightening us, but I also love those who take us for a ride that promises nothing but a thrill, a laugh, and, believe it or not, sometimes an opening to a new paradigm.

I’m planning on bringing up the “calibration drift” at my next meeting, but I will relate it to some fancy global warming theory: “according to renowned scientist KFB, calibration drift is the real culprit causing glaciers to melt..”

I assure you, a few of my colleagues will soon head for their dumb phones to google “calibration drift and glaciers,” and that says more about them then about KFB!😆

kawafanboi

always nice to have your immense breadth of knowledge 14th pete.

indeed there are too many industry shills on pianoworld that panders to falsehood and misinformation.

kawaboi has provided irrefutable evidence.

BACK ON TOPIC though. ES110 is probably a better choice from the value perspective. es120 without the pedal is a tough ask at $900. when es110 is on clearance for$ 500.

Bellicapelli

kawafanboi

Don't know where you are based, but where i looked in November ( italy, germany europe ) es110 is pretty much running out, and prices are going slightly up. Looks like the last pieces are awaiting real model aficionados now, actually preferring the 110 iver the 120, rather than plain bargain hunters.

kawafanboi

well sure, i'm not saying 110 is better than 120 in any function other than price and pedal.

Pete14

But is the Privia better? that is the question!

No, really, that is literally the question!

I’m not familiar with either; however, Casio tends to offer more bang for the buck; perhaps because they are the underdog?

One thing working against Casio…..is “Casio!” The branding/decal reminds us of cheap calculators and watches, and I wonder if they should consider changing their name altogether.

Imagine a ‘real’ hybrid “by Casio with the participation of Bechstein;” I’d be weary about spending big bucks on such an instrument, only to have that cheap “Casio” decal staring at me. I’m not kidding, they should consider changing the company’s name to something like “Faust & Sons;” a name that conveys old-school pedigree coupled with cache & prestige. I’d pay big bucks for a Faust & Sons hybrid but not for a Casio hybrid; even if aware that it is the same piano built by the same company, and I suspect so would others.

Really, would anyone ‘round here brag about owning a Casio hybrid? But what about a Faust & Sons? Now, that would be a conversation piece worthy of a brag!😉

CyberGene

Pete14 I’m not kidding, they should consider changing the company’s name to something like “Faust & Sons;” a name that conveys old-school pedigree coupled with cache & prestige.

I agree but it should definitely be a name conveying Germanic origins, e.g. Käsezeitmessung und Söhne

Pete14

CyberGene I agree but it should definitely be a name conveying Germanic origins, e.g. Käsezeitmessung und Söhne

🤔

CyberGene

Pete14 OK, I agree it’s too long. How about just Käsemann?

Pete14

That is definitely worth bragging and carries a punch!

Perhaps we should start sending these suggestions to Casio….

Dear Casio,

It has come to our attention that Casio might be hindering……Casio, therefore, we’ve comprised a number of alternate solutions to this conundrum. Please, do not take this personally, for “Casio” has already earned its place amongst one of the most prolific calculator/watch makers, but times they are a’ changin’ and we, here at Clack, believe that your company should change too; specifically your branding…..

HZPiano

CyberGene Käsemann

🧀

This would almost make it a Dutch brand.

The Flemish call us "Kaaskoppen", which literally translates as "Cheeseheads" or maybe… roughly… to "Cheesemen" which circles nicely back to…

Käsemann.

Cheers and happy cheese dishes,

MacMacMac

CyberGene Käsezeitmessung und Söhne

That's Cheese Time Measurement ... and Sons.
Such a classy name for a piano! 🤩

Pete14

Mac, I’ve learned that so long as it sounds ‘fancy’ people do not care much behind the actual meaning of the name.

Take ‘Venti’, for example, it simply means 20 (as in a twenty ounce cup o’ Starbucks) in Italian, yet it makes people feel so sophisticated when they say Venti, that one can almost see the pride in their eyes waiting to burst out and say, “aren’t I fancy.”

I hate Starbucks, but just for kicks I visit occasionally; only to ask for “a large cup o’ joe,” and then wait for the coffee-maker (they like to call themselves baristas) to proudly correct me, “you mean a Venti?” “No, I mean a friggin lotta coffee in a huge cup, that’s what I mean.”

Sooner than you’d think, the “Karens” start complaining, “you're holding back the line,” but I do not capitulate till the coffee-maker reluctantly serves me my coffee!

BTW, the “Venti” was once called the “Grande,” which is Italian for large, but it turns out that “Grande” is also Mexican for large, so once this became obvious, the name was swiftly changed, so as to leave no doubt that “we do not speak Mexican ‘round here;” because it doesn’t sound fancy (the irony). Of course, the implications run deeper than that, but you get the gist.

QuasiUnaFantasia

Apart from the fact that where I am from "Casio" does not carry the baggage it apparently heaves around where some of you are from, I once saw an interview with an Italian entrepreneur in Germany; he called his company "Müller & Söhne" (aka "Miller & sons") because under his own name the company had not been able to attract customers.

Pete14

Would you like me to include your suggestion, Miller & Sons, into the open letter we’re submitting to Casio?

Surely, Casio could buy-out whatever “Mom & Pop” shop Miller & Sons represents. They don’t make beer, do they?

But I agree, in general, that invoking the sons creates an image of pedigree that runs back to the very first Miller, and that can be a very powerful marketing tool.

It’s the best way to convey a direct lineage to history without actually having one; genius, I say!😁

Joannchr

Pete14 agree . Having said that Casio has been making DP for more than 40 years now , so they are new comers so to speak. As much as I respect them for what they have achieved as a company with no bad background in music , I am not a huge fan for 2 reasons . First being illegal distributor resales price in the past ( RPM ) which is a bit dodgy and also for the lack of innovation . Roland is very comparable to Casio in term of background, 2 Japanese companies, with no history in music , starting business in the 80’s ( mid 70’s for Roland) and targeting amateur/ beginners market share . Roland as opposed to Casio has evolved massively , being one of the leaders in synthetisers , being praised by live musicians , and have been one of the key contributors of the midi protocol. I’m not aware of any disruptive innovation that Casio did bring to the party . Maybe I lack information, but that’s just my impression. Renaming the brand or making it appear as a new division or spin off can change this image , but do they really care as they seem to do well company wise .

MacMacMac

Pete14 “No, I mean a friggin lotta coffee in a huge cup, that’s what I mean.”

Sorry, Pete. You cannot get coffee at Starbucks. They only serve brewed charcoal tailings.

MacMacMac

Joannchr I’m not aware of any disruptive innovation that Casio did bring to the party.

Casio's main innovation was taking the 16-key calculator and expanding it to 88 keys.

kawafanboi

Pete14 But is the Privia better? that is the question!

I can understand newbies making these comparisons for their first piano, but taking a more distant view of the thing, at this point, relative to the technology actually inside these machines, they're only slightly more complicated than a calculator. it amounts to comparing 2 brands kitchen paper. bounty vs viva.

there are zealots and heretics on both sides, but ultimately, it hardly matters because the tech is so low, it's on the level of a commodity. there's been so little innovation in our hobby space i think some of us has gone insane from the suffocation.

it seems that the industry voice is excessive on pianoworld, and what's happened is they've actively suppressed their only path to salvation, which requires divergence from traditional piano products.

the current piano companies are not the best at producing any of the components which constitute a digital piano. they don't have a fast computer, their speaker system is flat out trash, their software is gimped to run on that junk-puter, the keybed also hasn't evolved much where much better solutions exist today at very low implementation costs.

as they are, there's no where to go but down. with a diminishing relevance compared to other entertainment products.

RIP

Pete14 One thing working against Casio…..is “Casio!” The branding/decal reminds us of cheap calculators and watches, and I wonder if they should consider changing their name altogether.

Isn't that what they have done with calling their pianos Privia? FWIW, I tried them (at the time when they were FX130 until FX160 if I remember the names correctly) and they were good for the price given my objective of being close to an acoustic piano. I found the ES110 (which I think was new at the time) slightly better but more-than-slightly more expensive. I found the ES7 (or was it ES8?) too bouncy to be likable and I discarded it immediately regardless of prices

kawafanboi kawaboi believes the largest difference here, as mentioned by cybergene is the difference in goals.

I guess that's the most important thing. Unfortunately, most people need to make their purchase choice before they have their goals clear, since they don't know what their musical journey will look like. Some people are even aware of that, and some other aren't, and both categories default to the "most similar to acoustic". As I did, but in my case it was a deliberate choice (after a couple of decades of non-velocity-sensitive synth action).

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