name that piano

dore_m · 2022-09-10T02:58:49+00:00

Now that I have 3 pianos in my line of "The Experience" pianos, we can play a little game. I've played the same passage using all three: Yamaha S6, Steinway B, Fazioli F308 Can you tell which is which? Comment to guess. All pianos were recorded using the same mics in the same setup over the strings (AB array inside the piano). If it gets interesting, I might record another passage, upper range, then another, lower range. I'd assume that the lower range would probably give it away. piano-3.wav piano-1.wav piano-2.wav

David B

Coming through my MacBook speakers the differences are very subtle. Too subtle for me to care which is which. I'd imagine in person the pianos would sound more distinct. However, I should acknowledge that I don't think I have a very good ear for discerning these types of things.

God Bless,
David

Drew-r

dore_m I've heard that most Yamaha harps are not sand cast, and the vacuum casting causes the brighter "metallic" tone. I'm not sure if the S6 is sand cast, the website says "hand-casted" which I guess maybe is misleading.

I’m highlighting this now (present era) minute detail for two reasons: 1) what little i know about foundry work casting is by way of Junior High School “shop class” 1972 style in a small rural community. I remember using / packing sand into a special frame, to snugly fit around a template / model object that was shaped like the thing we were manufacturing “casting” - an oak leaf shaped ash tray. Once packed, we carefully opened the 2 halves of the frame, removed the template, put the 2 halves back together, then poured molten metal into the inlet; 2) i’m guessing that in the modern era of manufacturing APs, the harp frames are cast either “by hand” or by machine …. but i have no clue whether this modern process uses sand or other material. I do guess that sand, being comprised of many grains of eroded rock, in the early days, helped to provide good granularity “resolution” for the surface/shape/contours of the object being cast-manufactured.

Years ago I had casting done on my injured left leg - plaster of Paris - which produced a knee brace that faithfully fit the shape of said leg.

As for stereotypes, this may explain why, after i determined piano #2 was the most pleasing sound for me, i ended up guessing that most pleasing must mean type = S&S. 🤷‍♂️

dore_m

Fazioli, Steinway B, then Yamaha.
Spectrum shown immediately after the attack for about 4 seconds. Second C from the lowest.

dore_m

Those graphs were Pedal Up samples, which means that the only open damper was the C depressed.
The things I notice about these graphs, that may suggest the character of the pianos:

The Fazioli has the most even harmonics, where all peaks are about the same size and roll off fairly high - after 6khz.
The Fazioli has the "weakest fundamental" - the first peak on the left is smaller than the second, which is the first harmonic.
The Steinway and Yamaha look very similar, which may be why it was difficult for some to tell the difference.
If you look closely, the Steinway's 3rd harmonic is weaker, and the higher frequencies roll off quicker than the Yamaha. This may contribute to the feeling that Steinways have a "thicker sound" with less harmonics.
the Fazioli has very distinct harmonics in the 1k-2k range, while the Steinway and Yamaha have smaller amplitude peaks in that range. Does this explain the general Fazioli brightness?

Ralphiano

PIano 3 = Fazioli
Piano 1 = Yamaha
PIano 2 = Steinway

QuasiUnaFantasia

There's not much going on with the Steinway above 3.8 KHz compared to the activity in the others. That should make those two sound brighter.

dore_m the Fazioli has very distinct harmonics in the 1k-2k range

It must be audible, but the visual difference is so pronounced that I'm wondering what the structural difference between Fazioli´s and the others is, which causes this sound difference.

It seems as if the Fazioli has higher energy in the right channel than in the left, but this is not as readily apparent with the others. Is there really such a difference ... is the Fazioli sounding more from one side than the other?

dore_m

QuasiUnaFantasia It must be audible, but the visual difference is so pronounced that I'm wondering what the structural difference between Fazioli´s and the others is, which causes this sound difference.

All I can say is that Fazioli used modern tools to optimize their designs from day one, which was in the 80s. Perhaps the evenness of harmonics is intentional and engineered this way (?)

When I record using the AB mics I set the gain according to the best signal, and then rebalance by ear later. So the balance might be artificial, or may be real - I'm not sure. The ambisonic mics, though, need to be pre calibrated (gain matched) prior to recording because I think the balance between the six mics makes a psycho acoustic difference if mucked with, if that makes any sense.

MacMacMac

I don't know whether Fazioli as a virtual instrument is representative of the acoustic original ... but I must say I don't like it. I have two Fazioli VSTs ... and the sound from both is dead and lifeless.

dore_m

@MacMacMac Desert Island, can only bring one - Fazioli or PTQ?

dore_m

MacMacMac I don't know whether Fazioli as a virtual instrument is representative of the acoustic original

This will probably be really interesting for some of you... Below is Paolo Fazioli playing the same piece (go back and listen to "fullrange1.wav" on the SAME F308 that I sampled. I re-created Paolo Fazioli's rendition of Chopin on an F308 by re-playing the piece using a sampled rendition of the exactly the same piano.

Granted, the video audio was captured with a phone where as I mic'd the inside of that piano.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbaY5drehSc&t=22s

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