name that piano

dore_m

Now that I have 3 pianos in my line of "The Experience" pianos, we can play a little game. I've played the same passage using all three: Yamaha S6, Steinway B, Fazioli F308
Can you tell which is which? Comment to guess.
All pianos were recorded using the same mics in the same setup over the strings (AB array inside the piano).
If it gets interesting, I might record another passage, upper range, then another, lower range.
I'd assume that the lower range would probably give it away.
piano-3.wav
piano-1.wav
piano-2.wav

Drew-r

I cannot tell which is which, possibly because this may well be my first time hearing all three of these; SteinwayB, FazioliF308 and Yamaha S6.

I listened on ipad using the best $15 set of JBL wired headphones i could find 4 years ago when most local shops i visited had young workers that looked at me like an alien upon asking for wired headphones ….. like i was asking for a malted shake or other artifacts from the 20th century.

Nonetheless, #2 sounds the most pleasing to me, especially the resonances in the lower range of your piece. I’m throwing a dart and guessing I would most prefer hearing a Steinway B …. does this make me a naive snob? Other than this, i hazard no other guesses but i did hear some kind of note-off effect at the very end of #3 …. i guess the damper was let off just as the recording ended,

ClothEaredNincompoop

I don't really know. But for fun:
1 - Fazioli
2 - Steinway
3 - Yamaha

vagfilm

I second ClothEaredNincompoop

CyberGene

That's pretty interesting. I am only sure about the 2 being Steinway since it has this typical soft velvety tone that is very recognizable. Now, 1 is bright all around, whereas 3 has kind of metallic zing on top of a very dull overall sound. Based on that I would say 1 is the Fazioli which I've only heard on various sampled libraries and digital pianos and my impression is it's just too in-your-face sound that is evenly bright and without too much dynamic or frequency contrast throughout the tone development. With that in mind, I'd say:

Fazioli
Steinway
Yamaha

And I see I repeat the previous two posts which I have intentionally skipped until sharing my opinion 🙂

dore_m

The answer is.....

1 - Fazioli F308
2 - Steinway Model B
3 - Yamaha S6

Many of you got this pretty quickly, and I was especially impressed by @CyberGene 's first response, which hits the nail on the head:

CyberGene I am only sure about the 2 being Steinway since it has this typical soft velvety tone that is very recognizable. Now, 1 is bright all around, whereas 3 has kind of metallic zing on top of a very dull overall sound. Based on that I would say 1 is the Fazioli which I've only heard on various sampled libraries and digital pianos and my impression is it's just too in-your-face sound that is evenly bright and without too much dynamic or frequency contrast throughout the tone development.

When I was making the Fazioli library late last year, he mentioned that Fazioli's sound bright in all ranges, and I began to notice this as well. The Steinway has a darker, thicker sound, with less ring-ey harmonics, and the Yamaha has more prominent overtones, which makes it "cut through a mix" as Yamaha's are known for.

QuasiUnaFantasia And I'm now tending towards thinking no. 1 is the Fazioli, because the bass was much more pronounced than in the other two.

I thought that the Chopin would show that the F308 is a 10 foot long piano, while the others are 7 feet long. You can hear the lowest bass notes are not muddy in Piano 1.

Anyway, when I get a chance, I'll post some spectragrams to see if it matches our expectations.

dore_m

Just waking up here in the far West.... Interesting comments.
Here's the second of 3 samples - upper range. Let's see if it changes minds, or re-confirms opinions.
Are there particular characteristics in the upper ranges of these three pianos that make them stand out as one make or another?
upperrange1.wav
upperrange2.wav
upperrange3.wav

QuasiUnaFantasia

No. 3 sounds distant, maybe it's because it is a larger piano, so the Fazioli. No. 2 is brighter, so I am guessing Yamaha, leaving no. 1 as the Steinway. They all sound quite similar though, and I suspect that it would be somewhat easier to compare them if we had a classical piece to listen to (Beethoven, or Chopin, not Bach or minimalism).

For reference, I have been listening on amplifier/loudspeakers of a not-exactly-the-highest calibre.

dore_m

QuasiUnaFantasia I suspect that it would be somewhat easier to compare them if we had a classical piece to listen to (Beethoven, or Chopin, not Bach or minimalism).

The last clue will be my imperfect rendition of some Chopin. But I'll wait for more comments first. It's been interesting. I'm considering showing some spectrograms after I reveal the answers.

CyberGene

I’d love to know what 2 is. I assumed it was the Steinway but, as a Yamaha fanboy, I’d be more than happy if it turns out to be a Yamaha 😀

vagfilm

Ok. This time I go with:
1 - Fazioli
2 - Yamaha
3 - Steinway

I have both current Experiences installed (the Fazioli and the Yamaha) and they sound so different when testing, and then so similar in a blind test... sigh... Anyway, since my preference in Dore's libraries go to his Yamaha, so I chose the examples accordingly 😀

dore_m

vagfilm they sound so different when testing, and then so similar in a blind test...

Interesting that you say that. I was considering performing these pieces separately (one time each for each piano), but ended up just recording a midi file and re-using it. The reason I considered performing them separately is because a pianist will adjust his key pressure/velocity according to the timbres he wants to bring out. So using one midi file to compare different pianos does not gauge the potential of that particular piano library. In other words, if a darker sounding library isn't bright enough, you'd probably play at higher velocities, i'd imagine.

dore_m

Here's the last sample. Excuse the performance mistakes.
I should have mentioned that being in California, the Steinway B is, of course, a NY Steinway and not a Hamburg model. I don't have any experience with the Hamburg variants, but I'd assume that they are typically voiced for the European market.
fullrange2.wav
fullrange3.wav
fullrange1.wav

Drew-r

dore_m

I found the margin of difference in what i hear in both the second set & third set of samples more difficult to distinguish among the 3 pianos. The full range sample gave virtually nothing away to my ears. Overall, i still consider piano #2 the most pleasing, by a small margin over #1 and slightly larger margin over #3 …. and i guess they are Steinway, Fazioli & Yamaha respectively.

I’m amazed you own all three! ….. how do you rate them?

navindra

I don't know these pianos but I think I prefer Piano 1. It seems to possess a clarity that the others lack. My assumption is that this is a Steinway.

dore_m

Drew-r I’m amazed you own all three! ….. how do you rate them?

I don't own them. My personal piano is a Mason & Hamlin Model A, which is a cousin to the Steinway M. It's just a passion hobby of mine to seek out these pianos, record them, and make instruments out of them.

Drew-r This experiment gets to the very essence of what happens on piano forums

So yes, I drew this thread out on purpose, partially to see the level of interest and participation. I often have DM discussions here on PC that really get into pretty technical detail, and I always wonder if I should throw some of those discussions into a public thread. So I put this thread out to see if anyone would be interested in taking a deeper dive into the differences of these instruments. At least for me, the stereotypes of these instruments hold true as you'll see in my next post....

QuasiUnaFantasia

This third snippet was more revealing of differences than the others, in my opinion. And I'm now tending towards thinking no. 1 is the Fazioli, because the bass was much more pronounced than in the other two. The second one I still guess as the Yamaha, so now no. 3 would be the Steinway. But I'm used to listening to Hamburg Steinway's, so maybe this throws me off course.

Drew-r

This may be one of those it-goes-without-saying ……… -but-i’m-gonna-say-it-nonetheless.

This experiment gets to the very essence of what happens on piano forums …. somebody volunteers to be an OP serving up a piano topic with a title to be considered ( read: eligible to be quickly OR drawn out discussed, diced, sliced, solved or exacerbated) after which it really becomes a step-by-step exercise of how each of our YMMV’s vary, with perhaps some respectful and or robotic IMHOs sprinkled in as needed. The current experiment, under title name that piano, seeks to identify 3 pianos , and while it may ultimately do that, in the process it is also identifying the sensory capabilities - namely hearing, eyesight and requisite cognition there in - of we the volunteer responders. 🙂

QuasiUnaFantasia

dore_m At least for me, the stereotypes of these instruments hold true as you'll see in my next post....

A cliff hanger!? I hope Season 2 comes around soon.
😁

dore_m

I think everyone's guesses were good, even if incorrect. When I first played the Steinway, I had a difficult time noticing the differences between it and the Yamaha. But over time, I could feel that the lower ranges were "thicker" and the yamaha was brighter overall.

I've heard that most Yamaha harps are not sand cast, and the vacuum casting causes the brighter "metallic" tone. I'm not sure if the S6 is sand cast, the website says "hand-casted" which I guess maybe is misleading.

Drew-r

dore_m I've heard that most Yamaha harps are not sand cast, and the vacuum casting causes the brighter "metallic" tone. I'm not sure if the S6 is sand cast, the website says "hand-casted" which I guess maybe is misleading.

I’m highlighting this now (present era) minute detail for two reasons: 1) what little i know about foundry work casting is by way of Junior High School “shop class” 1972 style in a small rural community. I remember using / packing sand into a special frame, to snugly fit around a template / model object that was shaped like the thing we were manufacturing “casting” - an oak leaf shaped ash tray. Once packed, we carefully opened the 2 halves of the frame, removed the template, put the 2 halves back together, then poured molten metal into the inlet; 2) i’m guessing that in the modern era of manufacturing APs, the harp frames are cast either “by hand” or by machine …. but i have no clue whether this modern process uses sand or other material. I do guess that sand, being comprised of many grains of eroded rock, in the early days, helped to provide good granularity “resolution” for the surface/shape/contours of the object being cast-manufactured.

Years ago I had casting done on my injured left leg - plaster of Paris - which produced a knee brace that faithfully fit the shape of said leg.

As for stereotypes, this may explain why, after i determined piano #2 was the most pleasing sound for me, i ended up guessing that most pleasing must mean type = S&S. 🤷‍♂️