First impressions with VPC1

nwu , Hello and welcome to PianoClack.

I recently 'felt' (but not actually played with sound) PHA-50 in an FP-90. It is said to be a great action but I immediately concluded it is not my cup of tea. It makes a strange squishing sound and has a feel to match -- it is not for me.

If you're new to (digital) piano like I was almost two years ago, and want to use your Roland as a MIDI controller with VSTs, as you seem to, then PHA-4 is a fine place to start. I chose the FP-10 because its keybed and MIDI output were all I needed. I preferred it over other slabs at a similar price point such as P125, ES110, Korg D1 and the Casio offerings.

I may want to upgrade to (for instance) the VPC1 because by now I know that for me playing piano is here to stay for probably the rest of my life, but if I can't upgrade (yet) I'll happily paddle on with the little Roland some more.

The mantra (essential!) is to try each instrument on your shortlist thoroughly yourself. All forum posts and YouTube videos in the world can be educational and help you think about your purchase, but the final decision can only be made under your own arms, hands, fingers, ears. I recently rediscovered the truth of this during several store visits -- where everything I thought I knew about all the digital piano brands and models was challenged instantly in just a few keystrokes. I was actually shocked how little (almost none!) of the current offerings I actually liked, and am glad I started using virtual pianos (just one, really) right from the beginning.

Cheers and happy decision making,

HZ

Gamma1734

Thanks for sharing your impressions! I'm hoping to upgrade my keyboard in the next year or so, and the VPC-1 is currently the prime contender, so it's really helpful to get such a detailed first-hand impression from an experienced player.

However, I'm really mystified (and somewhat appalled) in regards to the pricing discrepancies for this unit. Here in the US the VPC-1 was retailing for around $1,899.00 online until recently, but I've noticed it has now jumped to $2,399.00 retail in the past few months. 😱

Amazing that you can get it for $1,400.00 in Germany. At that price, I could fly to Germany myself, pick it up, and bring it back with me for less than the cost of purchasing at US retail. 😭

I do feel for you jdg78 , and don't understand it either.

Cheers and a happy upgrade (anyway?!),

HZ

vagfilm my practice level does not need it for a couple of years

Hey,

What is your current practise instrument (that apparently you don't need to replace yet)?

Cheers and happy playing,

HZ

HZPiano
Geez... You want to embarrass me 😀 I have a toy-like Yamaha with lighted keys (EZ-something), which I bought second hand many years ago. Two years ago when my kid turned 3, I brought it back from storage. She is not really into serious practice at the moment, and I don't want to force her to piano classes, but she LOVES following the lights and playing the learning songs. Myself, I am using it as a TOOL for hand coordination and scale and chord practice (it's amazing how nimble and coordinated my left fingers are on a guitar fretboard with the palm turned upwards, and how clumsy they become once the hand palm is turned down on a keyboard...). I am in no hurry (playing Carnegie is not on my radar...) and I simply enjoy learning about harmonics and chords (everything is very logic in a linear keyboard versus the 2D craziness of the fretboard!!!). Two hand scales are my nemesis, and I am methodic: scales have precedence over Chopin. I am ok-ish for the moment: although I would prefer to have a weighted keyboard ASAP, the EZ works better for my kid, and the lighted keys (that can be turned on and off) are a great learning TOOL for scales and chords. If she wants to begin lessons, then I will get a slab (right now the option would be FP90x, because of the simplicity of the audio interface - VSTs for me, internal sounds for her). If she completely rejects formal classes, then I would probably get a VPC1 (or a DIY hybrid). But at this moment (and for at least one more year) I am enjoying going through the fundamentals rather than developing the correct touch, and the weighted keyboard is not yet my priority (finding 45 uninterrupted daily minutes for practice is the priority).

vagfilm Geez... You want to embarrass me 😀

Not at all! And thanks for sharing. My journey started with a Yamaha PSS-A50 😋. Granted, that was short-lived 😲.

🙂

HZ

vagfilm (everything is very logic in a linear keyboard versus the 2D craziness of the fretboard!!!).

My brain works that way too. Having played both instruments, musical theory didn't start to make sense until I started learning the piano.

God Bless,
David

David B musical theory didn't start to make sense until I started learning the piano.

In fact that is how I started exploring piano in the first place.

Wanting to dive into Double Bass and Jazz, I watched YouTube-recorded masterclasses by Rufus Reid. He always had a piano and pianist present, highly recommending the piano to his students for better understanding of music, melody, harmony and thus the role of the bassist in all of this.

As it turned out, I find piano just as interesting and now want to explore and enjoy both.

Cheers and happy understanding,

HZ

Gamma1734 CA49

HZPiano How would you compare the action in the VPC1 versus the action in the CA49?

So, to answer my own question, this afternoon I took the train to the city of Leiden, The Netherlands, to play a CA49 and thus Grand Feel Compact in particular. Out of curiosity and more so because it is often mentioned to be the successor to RM3 Grand II which by now is only still found in the VPC1. Also, somewhere on PW in 2018 Kawai James calls GFC 'far superior'. So I just had to check.

Well, I wasn't pleased. It is somewhat nice if you are not sensitive (as I am) to any of my major two complaints:

• The action is bouncy on key return! I really wasn't prepared to find this… Much RHIII/RHC like.
• The black keys have a strange plasticky-rubbery finish even though GFC is a fully wooden keyboard.

GFC does have a longer pivot length than RM3 Grand II. That is indeed noticeable, but not to an extent that I would call a significant advantage against the other shortcomings.

So, for me personally, I'm left with the VPC1 as the only upgrade option to my Roland PHA-4 Standard action. And I'm going to double check that one as well, because if it also bounces and has that weird black key coating (without me noticing it before), it falls through as well… I'll see if I can go and re-check VPC1 next week.

Should VPC1 fall through (I hope not!)… then nothing below 3,000€ would float my boat 😲. And 3,000(+) I don't have, and probably would never want to invest in 'digital'. So my only hope is on one last keybed…

Cheers and happy actions,

HZ

PS Nudged towards it by the knowledgeable store owner I played a Shigeru Kawai SK-2 hand built shortish grand. Brand new, some protective plastic still on its panels. Now I've never been much of a fan of the acoustic Kawai sound nor of shorter grands. But… this one played like a nice dream… high level of comfort and control… and a very pleasing sound and a truly 'singing' instrument. Now that was a super positive and educational surprise. Just 43,000€ so… Oops…

HZPiano Have you tried Roland's PHA-50?

vagfilm Please see above:

HZPiano I recently 'felt' […] PHA-50 in an FP-90.

😉

HZ

Hello,

To continue the story:

Today I went out and double-checked the VPC1. It bounces a little as well but much more within what I consider normal and acceptable. It also has a bit of that black key texture that, for me, would take some getting used to but isn't a deal-breaker.

I also paid some more attention to Grand Feel III in a CA79. Now that action (again apart from the black key texture) I find really well done and, budget allowing, would be my clear preference as a digital action. I felt well at ease/comfortable playing it and had a good connection with it. Of course the furniture, sound engine, amps and speakers are overkill in a way, the price (therefore) too rich for my budget, so here I am still undetermined.

A VPC2 obviously should not get GFC as is often rumored, but the GFIII instead. Then we'd be cooking on GAS for sure.

Cheers and happy actions,

HZ

HZPiano A VPC2 obviously should not get GFC as is often rumored, but the GFIII instead.

The vpc1 looks exactly like a mp10 without sounds, lauched when the mp10 was being replaced by the mp11. So, if tradition holds, we will see mp12 one of these days (2022?2023? 2024?) and the vpc2 3 years after that...

vagfilm lauched when the mp10 was being replaced by the mp11.

Is the MP11 (non-SE) 9 years old (as the VPC1 is)?

Cheers and happy model history,

HZ

vagfilm It is difficult to extrapolate the releases of VPCx, since there is only one. If we had a VPC0 and a VPC1, we could do a linear regression and bet on the release date of a VPC2.

Linear regression works very well with Yamaha CLP since 2002 (CLP1xx)

Kawai does not follow time (or model names...) very well... Nonetheless, mp10 was launched in 2010, vpc1 in early 2013, and mp11 in early 2014.

vagfilm mp10 was launched in 2010, vpc1 in early 2013, and mp11 in early 2014.

I see. And the MP11SE is available since November 2017 (or so says the Thomann product info). If we take the liberty of calling that 'early 2018', then we have nice four-year intervals. And thus an MP12 should be here now. But things aren't normal at the moment (well, in fact, are they ever?) and so now such extrapolations need at least two years' worth of extension, I presume.

Cheers and happy forecasts,

HZ

The dates above are of the press releases of product announcement. Shop availability is delayed by a few months. MP11se was announced on october 2017 (almost 5 years ago, and more than 8 for the MP11).

Hey @Gamma1734, after listening to your latest wonderful recordings on youtube I wonder if you are still pleased with your VPC1? Anything else you noticed in the behavior/properties of the action you like/dislike, especially in combination with all the different VSTs you have?

After letting the subject rest for half a year I also purchased a VPC1 with the K&M 18810 stand again as an upgrade to my Roland FP-30 - the VPC1 has something addictive to it. If my last unit hadn't these two quality issues I described back then maybe I would't have returned it. It will arrive next week and I just hope the QC is fine this time. The price here in Germany is still very low compared to the US, it was 1400 $ for VPC1 and the stand.

Edit: Wow, I thought the price for the VPC1 in the US was 1900$, but its 2400, more than 1000$ more! That's crazy.

porco_rosso letting the subject rest for half a year

Thumbs up for actually doing that!

Hope you'll be happy with your new(est) VPC1 instrument now.

Cheers and the happiest playing,

HZ