First impressions with VPC1

Gamma1734

Hello everyone, finally my Kawai VPC1 arrived and I want to share my first impressions here. The idea is, to also tell you about my thoughts after using it a couple of weeks.

It was quite hard to even find this instrument at all. I could find it for around 1400$ but I imported it from Germany to Austria. I even went to Vienna in the hopes of being able to try VPC1 but nope, I literally couldn't find a single place that has one. Even in the whole of Austria there were almost none, let alone used ones. So I bought it blind online …

The packaging is ok, the overall quality is minimalistic and feels good. The pedals depress only a little but for the moment I don't care too much. The way it plays reminds me of the ES8 I used for quite a while, but I think VPC1 is a bit more sophisticated (and really heavier). Octave playing, or louder chord playing feels surprisingly "fluffy", but in a good way. The fluffiness from a nice concert grand, but more undefined. I played the E200ATX3 hybrid for 1.5years and want to compare now some things I noticed. First, the overall possible dynamics feel very good, in fact even better than with the hybrid, which is remarkable. (Depending on the V Curve) it's a bit hard to play consistently p or even pp, but it really feels like it's my "fault" and not the instrument. It feels like you have a great time bringing out melodies with your pinky for example. A problem I had with many instruments is that sometimes it feels like you can't play a chord perfectly simultaneously. It's like some midi values within the chord are a bit to the left, a bit to the right, but with this one I could play perfect cohesive chords, which was nice. Also staccato playing is MUCH better than with the hybrid. Ah, it feels so good to be able to play cheeky staccatos in a Mozart Sonata. The overall feel is really different to the hybrid, I don't want to say worse. I have to get used to the Grand style of keyboard. I've played on uprights my whole life, so it's a preference I guess. Yeah, so far really happy for that amount of money (really have to keep that in mind too the whole time.) Update possibly soon🙂

HZPiano

Hey Gamma1734 ,

I'm super happy that you are -- super happy 😃!

Some observations you make I had exactly the same when trying out a VPC1 in a piano store recently. In particular:

Gamma1734 The fluffiness from a nice concert grand

I started to be sold on the VPC1 when, at the same store at the same time, I played a new 60.000€ Yamaha C7X and noticed that these two actions -- although rather different of course -- really reminded me of eachother in the way I needed to approach my playing on both.

Gamma1734 it's a bit hard to play consistently p or even pp, but it really feels like it's my "fault" and not the instrument.

This, too, I found on acoustic grands that same afternoon and although it introduces more challenge in playing, I liked the 'realism factor' and better learning/training opportunity the VPC1 gives in this respect. It could be a technical flaw nevertheless, of course.

Gamma1734 A problem I had with many instruments is that sometimes it feels like you can't play a chord perfectly simultaneously

Same here with my Roland PHA-4 Standard, and the same ease on the VPC1 in comparison.

Great post, thank you!

Cheers and the happiest playing,

jdg78

Gamma1734

Thanks for sharing your impressions! I'm hoping to upgrade my keyboard in the next year or so, and the VPC-1 is currently the prime contender, so it's really helpful to get such a detailed first-hand impression from an experienced player.

However, I'm really mystified (and somewhat appalled) in regards to the pricing discrepancies for this unit. Here in the US the VPC-1 was retailing for around $1,899.00 online until recently, but I've noticed it has now jumped to $2,399.00 retail in the past few months. 😱

Amazing that you can get it for $1,400.00 in Germany. At that price, I could fly to Germany myself, pick it up, and bring it back with me for less than the cost of purchasing at US retail. 😭

EB5AGV

Great!. I am glad you like it. I could not be without mine, I enjoy it quite a lot. But my playing is lots simpler than yours, so I am double happy you like it, as I can grow with it 🤩

Enjoy!

Jose

Gamma1734

HZPiano Thanks for your comments, nice to hear that others experience similarly 🙂 I just made my first recording on the VPC1, it felt really nice, so far I'm really happy with it (:

vagfilm

@Gamma1734 If I remember correctly, you had a kawai CA a few years ago. Having tried that, why did you decide to try the vpc1? And do you like it more than the grandfeel action of that CA?

Gamma1734

vagfilm I had a CA49 and CA98. I don't remember the 98 action that well anymore, but what I didn't like about it was that it felt too sluggish for my taste, but if I were to play it now I would probably think differently. I'm not the best person to ask for actions because unfortunately a part of my character is that I feel unhappy with the things that I have after a while because I think they don't need my demands, but a solution is to not play too much or force very difficult pieces. What annoyed me about the 98 too are the rubber thingies that simulate let off. I remember being so annoyed about that , that I completely opened the instrument and removed them, and it felt so much better. I also played the 49 in a store again recently. I quite liked it, felt somewhat tight and quite similar to the vpc that I have now. The speakers are also fine. But the action for the money is really very very good in the vpc, it's basically a blind buy in my opinion. I also played very long on the mp11, and I really couldn't say now that there is so much difference to the vpc, of course you can play a little bit more controlled in the piano regime because the keys are kind of heavier (and longer i think?) , but it's really almost double the price.

HZPiano

Gamma1734 I also played the 49 in a store again recently

How would you compare the action in the VPC1 versus the action in the CA49?

According to Kawai, the Grand Feel Compact (in the CA49) is "far superior" and "the successor" to the RM3 Grand II (in the VPC1).

However, I also recently tried the CA49 in two stores, and I have to say I'm not so sure it is actually better.

Cheers and thanks,

HZPiano

Gamma1734 CA49

HZPiano How would you compare the action in the VPC1 versus the action in the CA49?

So, to answer my own question, this afternoon I took the train to the city of Leiden, The Netherlands, to play a CA49 and thus Grand Feel Compact in particular. Out of curiosity and more so because it is often mentioned to be the successor to RM3 Grand II which by now is only still found in the VPC1. Also, somewhere on PW in 2018 Kawai James calls GFC 'far superior'. So I just had to check.

Well, I wasn't pleased. It is somewhat nice if you are not sensitive (as I am) to any of my major two complaints:

The action is bouncy on key return! I really wasn't prepared to find this… Much RHIII/RHC like.
The black keys have a strange plasticky-rubbery finish even though GFC is a fully wooden keyboard.

GFC does have a longer pivot length than RM3 Grand II. That is indeed noticeable, but not to an extent that I would call a significant advantage against the other shortcomings.

So, for me personally, I'm left with the VPC1 as the only upgrade option to my Roland PHA-4 Standard action. And I'm going to double check that one as well, because if it also bounces and has that weird black key coating (without me noticing it before), it falls through as well… I'll see if I can go and re-check VPC1 next week.

Should VPC1 fall through (I hope not!)… then nothing below 3,000€ would float my boat 😲. And 3,000(+) I don't have, and probably would never want to invest in 'digital'. So my only hope is on one last keybed…

Cheers and happy actions,

PS Nudged towards it by the knowledgeable store owner I played a Shigeru Kawai SK-2 hand built shortish grand. Brand new, some protective plastic still on its panels. Now I've never been much of a fan of the acoustic Kawai sound nor of shorter grands. But… this one played like a nice dream… high level of comfort and control… and a very pleasing sound and a truly 'singing' instrument. Now that was a super positive and educational surprise. Just 43,000€ so… Oops…

vagfilm

@Gamma1734 Thanks for the comments. I know I will regret not buying the vpc1 right now (there are 2 locally at ₁₂₀₀ eur). But my practice level does not need it for a couple of years, while new models will be lauched. I will end up spending more... Decisions, decisions... 😵

HZPiano

vagfilm my practice level does not need it for a couple of years

Hey,

What is your current practise instrument (that apparently you don't need to replace yet)?

Cheers and happy playing,

nwu

@HZPiano

You mentioned Roland's PHA-4. So I am currently thinking about purchasing an entry slab. I've decided to get the Roland FP-30x over Yamaha's P-125. I've watched Merriam YouTube reviews and he says he believes the PHA-4 is the best sub $1000 action.

But a lot of people over at pianoworldforum suggest the PHA-50 is that much superior. The FP-90X is way over my budget, but I can't help but feel I might be missing out. Did you try the PHA-50, is it magnitudes better than the PHA-4 standard?

HZPiano

nwu , Hello and welcome to PianoClack.

I recently 'felt' (but not actually played with sound) PHA-50 in an FP-90. It is said to be a great action but I immediately concluded it is not my cup of tea. It makes a strange squishing sound and has a feel to match -- it is not for me.

If you're new to (digital) piano like I was almost two years ago, and want to use your Roland as a MIDI controller with VSTs, as you seem to, then PHA-4 is a fine place to start. I chose the FP-10 because its keybed and MIDI output were all I needed. I preferred it over other slabs at a similar price point such as P125, ES110, Korg D1 and the Casio offerings.

I may want to upgrade to (for instance) the VPC1 because by now I know that for me playing piano is here to stay for probably the rest of my life, but if I can't upgrade (yet) I'll happily paddle on with the little Roland some more.

The mantra (essential!) is to try each instrument on your shortlist thoroughly yourself. All forum posts and YouTube videos in the world can be educational and help you think about your purchase, but the final decision can only be made under your own arms, hands, fingers, ears. I recently rediscovered the truth of this during several store visits -- where everything I thought I knew about all the digital piano brands and models was challenged instantly in just a few keystrokes. I was actually shocked how little (almost none!) of the current offerings I actually liked, and am glad I started using virtual pianos (just one, really) right from the beginning.

Cheers and happy decision making,

HZPiano

vagfilm Please see above:

HZPiano I recently 'felt' […] PHA-50 in an FP-90.

😉

HZPiano

I do feel for you jdg78 , and don't understand it either.

Cheers and a happy upgrade (anyway?!),

vagfilm

HZPiano
Geez... You want to embarrass me 😀 I have a toy-like Yamaha with lighted keys (EZ-something), which I bought second hand many years ago. Two years ago when my kid turned 3, I brought it back from storage. She is not really into serious practice at the moment, and I don't want to force her to piano classes, but she LOVES following the lights and playing the learning songs. Myself, I am using it as a TOOL for hand coordination and scale and chord practice (it's amazing how nimble and coordinated my left fingers are on a guitar fretboard with the palm turned upwards, and how clumsy they become once the hand palm is turned down on a keyboard...). I am in no hurry (playing Carnegie is not on my radar...) and I simply enjoy learning about harmonics and chords (everything is very logic in a linear keyboard versus the 2D craziness of the fretboard!!!). Two hand scales are my nemesis, and I am methodic: scales have precedence over Chopin. I am ok-ish for the moment: although I would prefer to have a weighted keyboard ASAP, the EZ works better for my kid, and the lighted keys (that can be turned on and off) are a great learning TOOL for scales and chords. If she wants to begin lessons, then I will get a slab (right now the option would be FP90x, because of the simplicity of the audio interface - VSTs for me, internal sounds for her). If she completely rejects formal classes, then I would probably get a VPC1 (or a DIY hybrid). But at this moment (and for at least one more year) I am enjoying going through the fundamentals rather than developing the correct touch, and the weighted keyboard is not yet my priority (finding 45 uninterrupted daily minutes for practice is the priority).

HZPiano

vagfilm Geez... You want to embarrass me 😀

Not at all! And thanks for sharing. My journey started with a Yamaha PSS-A50 😋. Granted, that was short-lived 😲.

🙂

David B

vagfilm (everything is very logic in a linear keyboard versus the 2D craziness of the fretboard!!!).

My brain works that way too. Having played both instruments, musical theory didn't start to make sense until I started learning the piano.

God Bless,
David

HZPiano

David B musical theory didn't start to make sense until I started learning the piano.

In fact that is how I started exploring piano in the first place.

Wanting to dive into Double Bass and Jazz, I watched YouTube-recorded masterclasses by Rufus Reid. He always had a piano and pianist present, highly recommending the piano to his students for better understanding of music, melody, harmony and thus the role of the bassist in all of this.

As it turned out, I find piano just as interesting and now want to explore and enjoy both.

Cheers and happy understanding,

vagfilm

HZPiano Have you tried Roland's PHA-50?