Cheapish console digital pianos with nice action?

CyberGene

HZPiano I don't think they felt different in weight, although I haven't compared them side by side. Maybe the FP10x was just a tiny bit lighter. But it also felt somehow stiffer, I don't know, kind of "slow", more inertial? This is all too subjective.

HZPiano

CyberGene This is all too subjective.

It is. I can relate to 'inertial', though.

I think you're a keen observer.

Thanks & Cheers,

homerghost

CyberGene I think my experience with the PHA-4 action on my current piano (also found on the FP-10) has spooked me against heavier actions. Inertia is definitely the word, normal playing is actually quite lovely, but I feel if I really try to shred the keys it's like someone is physically stopping me. Thepianoforever guy on YouTube warned about this and said he found trills etc very awkward to play and I didn't want it to be true but he was exactly right. He seems happy with a lot of other heavy actions, so maybe I don't hate heavy action as much as I think I do! I'm too inexperienced to say at this stage.

Pete14

Perhaps we don’t pay much attention to “how the action connects with the sound-engine”; because we’re too ‘obsessed’ with static weight.

The action in the P-515 felt like a ton of bricks when I first tried it with the power OFF (no sound); however, ‘soons’ I powered ON, and set it to the “right” volume, it was a very different story, and the action felt just right (not too heavy, not too light).

Keep in mind that playing at very low volumes will also have a similar effect on your perception of the action’s ‘weight’. In a nutshell, the louder/higher the volume, the lighter the action feels and vice-versa. This is a very real phenomenon.

HZPiano

Pete14 This is a very real phenomenon.

It certainly is. Whenever I start playing and forgot to turn on one of the amps, forgot a speaker switch, or one of the volume dials, the piano immediately feels unplayable and unreal.

With knobs and buttons set where they need to be, the playing experience falls into place (as much as possible).

Cheers and happy volume settings,

Theophilus Carter

I definitely notice that too: DP actions always feel lighter when I play with headphones at a decent level. The particular voice I choose also alters that perception; for example, electric piano sounds (e.g., Fender Rhodes) somehow "feel" lighter to me.

homerghost

Well here's an update: I bought a Kawai KDP120 (in black)! Here are some early thoughts in comparison to the Roland FP-30X for anyone in a similar position to me who might stumble across this thread.

Pros: The action is so much smoother and lighter. It doesn't have that feeling of inertia that the FP-30X does. My hands are sailing across the keys.

As an object in the room, it looks so classy. It's definitely a cheaper unit as far as furniture pianos go, but they've managed to make it look very beautiful indeed. Man, I love having a sliding keyboard cover too.

The volume slider is such a better way to control volume vs mashing an up or down button. Having five LEDs to depict master volume is truly terrible. Roland got that very wrong.

The built in lesson modes are a really cute touch, it's actually quite an impressive selection (Alfred, Czerny, Burgmuller et al) for an adult beginner such as myself, going back to basics and learning it properly rather than just brute force memorising pieces beyond their station.

Neutral: Both are a bit of a pig to control. A clunky bluetooth app or a cryptic key code that you need to cheatsheet or memorise - yuck. But that's just the price you pay at this price point. Roland have the edge here for at least labelling a handful of convenient options, but perhaps Kawai wins it back because it looks less messy without the labels.

Cons: The speakers on the FP-30X seem much better to my ears. Both downward firing which is inherently bad imo. The sound is a little muddy on the Kawai. Maybe some would call this warm, but it feels like a downgrade to my ears. It certainly doesn't sound bad though.

The onboard sounds on the Roland are MUCH better. They're perfectly usable here but the Harpsichord in particular sounds like a children's toy. If I wasn't using Pianoteq I'd be crying.

I knew this from the start, but it's still sad that I can't pipe my VST back through the piano's speakers. Headphones it is, and maybe this is a good excuse to buy some monitors. I'm happier with the MIDI performance on this keyboard vs the Roland though, it feels a lot more expressive to me. I'm no expert in this area though but I couldn't get happy with the Roland despite much tweaking.

I do have to concede that the Roland has much better and more premium action. Although I'm extremely happy with my choice, I have gained new appreciation for the PHA-4 and I wouldn't recommend against it as strongly as I would have before. It's slow for sure, but I'm realising that it was actually quite nice to play (trills etc aside) and I think a slightly more experienced player or someone with bigger hands would be much happier with it than I was. The Kawai is a step down in some ways but it still feels lovely to me, but I imagine more traditional or seasoned pianists would hate it.

So in conclusion, I definitely made the right choice. I've learned it's all about finding the right action for you and I feel incredibly liberated with this new setup. It has made playing fun again and I feel like I've gained a few months of experience thanks to this action. I would still heartily recommend the Roland FP-30X - it might not have been for me, but for less money you get a superb action (just so long as you're not a "shredder") and some incredible features and connectivity.

Would I buy the Kawai again? Ehhhh probably not. If it exploded or I had the energy to send it back, I'd probably splash out the extra for a Roland with PHA-50 action, purely my opinion but it's the best action I've ever tried and if my time with the FP-30X has taught me anything it's that Roland really do get a lot of things right and you actually get a lot of bang for your buck in terms of quality, features and connectivity. That said, their PHA-50 pianos are all a BIG price jump for something that I haven't quite got the chops for yet, so I can't really justify spending the extra grand. Give it a year or two and I'll probably sell this and upgrade, but I'm not feeling negative about the Kawai at all and I'm definitely in a much happier place than before.

Hope this mini review helps someone - and thanks to everyone in this thread for their guidance!

Theophilus Carter

homerghost Congrats! It sounds like you've got yourself a nice new piano that you'll enjoy for quite a while. In the meantime, start saving your pennies for your eventual Roland with a PHA-50! 😃

homerghost

Theophilus Carter Thanks! I'm looking forward to the upgrade at some point, in theory I could have stretched to one now but I'd rather play this Kawai into the ground a bit before I get something really really nice.

One more negative I'll add to the mix is that the keyboard noise on the Kawai is absolutely hideous. With headphones on, your family get front row tickets to a free "Stomp" performance.

HZPiano

homerghost the keyboard noise on the Kawai is absolutely hideous.

Oops! And it is said to be a rather quiet keyboard -- even in reviews! That takes me by surprise.

Did you gauge your PHA-4 as being quiet? I do -- as long as the grease stays in place between the key-to-hammer joints.

Congratulations on making your choice and enjoy!

Cheers and happy playing,

HZPiano

homerghost Hope this mini review helps someone

Thank you, homerghost for a nice, realistic (in my mind at least), well-balanced and informative write-up!

Interesting to read for sure, and it does help me appreciate the FP-10 I use more than I sometimes do (and, luckily, certainly do at other times).

Cheers and the happiest playing,

homerghost

HZPiano The PHA-4 was definitely impressively quiet! Never had an issue at all. I'm wondering if the problem I'm having with noise now has a lot to do with the FP-30X having been on a springy X stand while the KDP120 is a piece of furniture making contact with the hard floor. I'm going to try putting it on a foam mat and see if that helps at all.

The FP-10 is an awesome choice tbh. I wish there was an equivalent with the PHA-50 action! I'd buy a midi controller in a heartbeat

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