Pianoteq, Laurel and Yanny - what do you hear and like part 2

RIP · 2022-01-02T15:00:00+00:00

Following the discussion in https://pianoclack.com/forum/d/274-yet-another-pianoteq-critique/27 It came to my mind that we can all actually hear frequencies very differently. Hence I'm interested to see if there is a correlation between liking Pianoteq and hearing these two words, which have complementary frequency content. If you haven't alreay, go to the sister poll and vote there. Then go to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanny_or_Laurel and try in the browser. Hopefully you can also download the clip and use frequency shift in your favorite player. With VLC it is Tools->Effects->Audio->Advanced and then you can change the number of semitones (note that you need to "enable" that effect and "save it" after each slider movement, otherwise it has no effect!!!) Try first at zero. If you hear Laurel, go to -12 (where you should hear a burped Yanny) and then slightly raise one by one until you find the level at which the word becomes Laurel. If you already hear Yanny at zero, no need to go to -12, just raise one by one until it becomes Laurel. Repeat it a few times and pick the highest you can get. At first I could not get to hear it higher than -4, but after several tries I was able to reach -1. So for proper statistics let's all do it that way.

dore_m

I just made a video where I moved the EQ around. hopefully that'll work for you. Controlling in SFZ or posting audio files didn't seem like a good way to communicate.

I don't notice much difference.

MacMacMac

That was fast! Your motto must be "ask and you shall receive".

dore_m

When I'm online and reading (I don't follow all of the threads), I can be pretty quick. My tools are set up to edit and play digital piano very quickly.

MacMacMac

At first I was puzzled that PAPER CHASER could ever be confused with BIG FU*** SLUT.
So I gave some thought to it and came up with this ...

They both contain four syllables, like so:

#1                                #2                                      #3                       #4
P A                               P E R                                   C H A                    S E R
^                                 ^ ^                                     ^                        ^
v                                 v v                                     v                        v
B I G                             F U                                     K I N                    S L U T
The P/B plosives sound much       The non-rhotic R in "PER" sounds        CH in "CHASER" sounds    Both syllables start with S. And the
alike, esp. with backing music.   like the U in "FU***". And the P/F   like the K in "KIN".     non-rhotic ER in "SER" is sounded as "uh",
                                  sound similar under the backing music.                           similar to the UT "uh" sound ... with the
                                                                                                   terminal T sound lost in the backing music.

But PAPER CHASER has the stress on the first syllable of each word, which I might depict as "*- *-".

The other has its stresses as "* *- *". As such the rhythm is different between the two phrasings.

It's easy to see that the syllables can be "interchanged" ... but I find it puzzling that the ear/mind can be tricked around the rhythm.

MacMacMac

dore_m I forget if SFZ is ok for you - because I could either manipulate the samples and repost or use SFZ to EQ.

I had to dig to find my Sforzando player. I generally don't use it ... but it was there and your "VST" worked.
That provides a very easy way to see the shift in perception from Laurel on the low end to Yanny on the high end.
Fun stuff.

dore_m

Now that you have sforzando working you should try my fazioli!

MacMacMac

Is that the piano you developed last year?
Bring it on.

dore_m

https://pianoclack.com/forum/d/263-the-experience-fazioli-f308

The other ones are on Pianobook

https://www.pianobook.co.uk/profile/dore_m/

MacMacMac

To get more pianos from Pianobook I had to create an account.
Ok, that's easy.
Then it sends me an email with a link. So I click it.
That was easy.
Then it asks me to login. So I enter user name and password.
That was easy.
Then I click OK ... and it takes me back to the login page. Huh???
It's broken ...

Also ... when I was saving this new password information in my password book I noticed that I already had a Pianobook account under a different name. So I tried to login using that name. Same result. It just takes me back to the login page.

So then I clicked the Forgot Password link, and I changed my password. The change was accepted. But once again I could not login.

Whuzzup with Pianobook? I sent a message with this information. Still waiting for a reply.

dore_m

Unfortunately Pianobook is just a group of volunteers - so responses and bugs are often not addressed quickly.

I did have some problems with my android phone - it kept pushing to the login page again, even though I realized that I was logged in. So just go to the page you want and try downloading.

RIP

dore_m I did have some problems with my android phone - it kept pushing to the login page again, even though I realized that I was logged in. So just go to the page you want and try downloading.

@MacMacMac If that does not work, find the relevant cookie and remove it from your browser, also clearing the relevant cache. Much easier to totally clear the browser, if you can do that, but then you'll have to re-login everywhere else… On several websites I need to go, I need to do this routinely 🙁

MacMacMac

RIP If that does not work, find the relevant cookie and remove it from your browser, also clearing the relevant cache. Much easier to totally clear the browser, if you can do that, but then you'll have to re-login everywhere else… On several websites I need to go, I need to do this routinely

I routinely purge any cookies that are not on my white-list. There was no cookie there from pianobook.co.uk

BTW, after the first set of failed attempts I went over to Firefox. But the behavior there was exactly the same.

MacMacMac

I found the problem.
I have a lot of cookie blocks. But there was one errant entry. It blocked *.co.uk
I removed that and all is well.

I wonder whether I have that same block in Firefox?

RIP

So the result of this survey is a failure for lack of participation. Only six people responded to both survey however 13 people jumped on the praise/bash bandwagon survey (the other one) and one responded to this one only. I guess even if everybody who responded to either survey did both, we were at 14 people, which still I'd still consider a too low of a number. I was hoping to get 50-ish.

In any case, with only 6 people any conclusion is less-than-anectodical and an utter failure.

DPPianoPhil

RIP I am sorry I was the one to only reply to the Laurel/Yanni poll, as I don't do VSTis at all, any of them, so I don't have an opinion on Pianoteq… yet! 😀 I thought I was being useful answering this poll. My bad.

I agree with your assessment otherwise, it's too bad that there aren't enough responses and you can't draw any conclusion, but what do you make of me being able to hear both Yanni and Laurel, at the same time? Did anyone else hear that?

RIP

DPPianoPhil I am sorry I was the one to only reply to the Laurel/Yanni poll

No worries 🙂

DPPianoPhil but what do you make of me being able to hear both Yanni and Laurel, at the same time? Did anyone else hear that?

AFAIK you are quite unique at that. I have that capability with some concentration with the vase/face thing, but for me this is Laurel most of the time and only with great efforts and "direction" (as I described in that poll) a Yanni.

I am not aware of anyone being able to do what you say with this test.

DPPianoPhil

RIP I am not aware of anyone being able to do what you say with this test.

To be clear, I can’t do hear both Yanni and Laurel at all pitches, only at the -1 level. At -2 it’s Yanni only and Laurel only at 0, and even then, only when increasing the pitch from -12. If I find my changing point -1 or 0 depending on how you measure it, and lower the pitch from there, Laurel remains until maybe -4 or -5 when Yanni kicks in. So, this Yanni vs Laurel perception is not absolute, at least for me…

QuasiUnaFantasia

DPPianoPhil I thought I was being useful answering this poll.

Actually, all information is useful. Answering only the one poll still gives valid information about the choices in that poll. 🙂

It might well be that for all of us there is some level, at which we hear both sounds. But if that level is not an integer half tone level, we won't find out if we only shift by half tone steps.

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