VSL Concert D 1887 Review

jenpal Although the VSL Concert D 1887 has a very nice vintage character that I like, I decided to get the Synchron Bosendorfer Imperial instead for now

I played the Bosendorfer Imperial for a few years after it was first released and then I switched to the F308 after it came out. I eventually sold all my VSL Synchron pianos (5 full libraries) to someone here on the forum. The 1887 is my foray back into the VSL fold.

I appreciate that their libraries are much smaller, i.e., 50GB rather than 250. I really like the midi record/playback feature in latest Synchron Piano update. It's such a useful tool. Hopefully, they'll add proper pedal and sympathetic resonances because that's the only thing lacking right now. You can hear a lot of recordings of the actual Steinway D 1887 on the Clavierhaus YouTube channel and it sounds better than the VSL version because you can clearly hear much more string resonance. It's very lovely.

God Bless,
David

David B
Thanks for providing some insights with VSL. I hope I will enjoy most of the instruments I bought. It is good to know that they have reduced their library significantly. I have a dedicated 2TB drive for VSTs (apart from the OS drive, which is also a 2TB size), so hopefully this will last for a while.

I really like the MIDI record/playback too, and indeed it is very useful. With the sympathetic resonance, I am hopeful that Pianoteq could potentially enhance that area where VSL instruments may be lacking. Perhaps, the pedalling could also be improved too (I am thinking of OlivierW’s recent work). 🤔

I might visit Clavierhaus’ YouTube channel to hear more about the sound of the 1887 when I get the chance. I just have another demo licence for the VSL 1887, and I think this will last for another 30 days. 🙂

God bless!

jenpal just use my D274 gigperformer or mainstage and load in VSL this VSL1887 and save the new patch.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/0i2wton7fgcf90461k1dt/h?rlkey=ry3iuzwbwvy6bog832f1k8z7p&st=tsvl15ua&dl=0

Thanks, OlivierW. I downloaded all your gigperformer files. I will try it with VSL 1887, and I think I may need to remove (i.e. set to inf) the Sympathetic, Pedal Noise, and Key Rel Noise. 🤔

jenpal , yes, and never use Sympathetic Resonance in VSL player : it's totally fake and unreal, in actual => V1.3.1801 or less

David B Right now she is into Moroccan food and she is creating her own wonderful dishes. Here is a recent dish she made. It was delicious.

Wow, those dishes look amazing. I am getting hungry myself. Moroccan food is one of my absolute favorites (actually any Middle Eastern food) so you are very lucky. Compliments to the chef!

Cooking is also one of my passions, and I love trying out a new recipe on a weekend. I'm also very fortunate to live in one of the most diverse areas of the world (Queens, NY) which is something of a food lover's paradise in that I have access to cuisine from almost the entire world just a few steps from my door, as well as specialty grocery markets selling ingredients for almost any type of international food you can imagine.

jdg78 Cooking is also one of my passions, and I love trying out a new recipe on a weekend.

When my wife was still a teenager in anticipation of getting married someday, she purchased expensive pots and pans and Cutco knives. She didn't use them until after we were married. 😀 I was always impressed with that.

God Bless,
David

David B

That’s what you call “playing the long game.” 😄

So we've talked about cuisines, vegetarianism, pasta makers, and other virtual pianos, but I'm curious what the general consensus is on the sound of this 1887. My preset is very close to the factory preset, so what you're hearing in my video is the pure tone of the 1887. You don't have to critique my playing, but would this piano fit into your repertoires?

@CyberGene You once said that this could be a VSL piano you'd consider buying. Do you still feel the same way?
@Pete14 Is this too many layers for you, 😉 or does this vintage Steinway inspire some appreciation?
@QuasiUnaFantasia You seem to have a refined taste and are knowledgeable on a broad range of subjects, does this 1887 appeal to you?
@David Lai Could you see the 1887 fitting into your virtuoso experience or do you need feedback from something like the Modern D to help you prepare for whatever is on your agenda?
@jdg78 I know you got a great deal on this piano, even better than my +50% off. How often do you play it now?
@Johnstaf I know you appreciate the pedal resonance feature like on the Vienna Imperial. If VSL offered that feature on all their Synchron pianos, would the 1887 be something you'd go for or would one of the other Synchron pianos interest you more?

What say y'all?

David B You once said that this could be a VSL piano you'd consider buying. Do you still feel the same way?

Yes, it sounds very close to my ideal for piano sound, however I'm a bit worried about the playability of VSL pianos. Taking in mind I find Garritan CFX almost perfect for my recording needs, I'm not very enthusiastic about testing other pianos. Yes, that's a bit unexpected coming from me 😀

CyberGene Yes, it sounds very close to my ideal for piano sound, however I'm a bit worried about the playability of VSL pianos.

What gives you pause about the playability of VSL pianos? Is it something you hear in videos such as mine or others, have you demoed a VSL piano before and found it wanting?

David B What gives you pause about the playability of VSL pianos? Is it something you hear in videos such as mine or others, have you demoed a VSL piano before and found it wanting?

Hmm, a good question. None of the above, I think I've read some opinions on our forum, probably by @David Lai and other people but I don't remember any details now. I actually think someone mentioned that half-pedaling is not very good on the VSL pianos?

David B Is it something you hear in videos such as mine

Actually, I hadn't watched your video until now 😊 (I was busy with the forum, or constantly on the move with no access to good headphones). But I just did and indeed, it's a great sound which I think I may like more for intimate playing for myself, rather than for recordings because I think this piano lacks the sparkle for very polished recordings for YouTube (well, that's an exaggeration, I'm just trying to find excuses for why I think Garritan CFX is better for ultimate recordings 😉). But I'm more impressed with your constant progress at the piano, your very balanced harmonic approaches, tritone substitutions, etc. stuff I haven't heard you doing before, kudos for that 🙂

CyberGene I actually think someone mentioned that half-pedaling is not very good on the VSL pianos?

That could be true. I don't really employ any advanced pedaling when I play. It's either up or down and nothing in-between unless I'm unconscious of it. Although, I do like the idea of half pedaling on my virtual pianos simply because it would translate to a more authentic acoustic experience.

CyberGene But I just did and indeed, it's a great sound which I think I may like more for intimate playing for myself, rather than for recordings because I think this piano lacks the sparkle for very polished recordings for YouTube (well, that's an exaggeration, I'm just trying to find excuses for why I think Garritan CFX is better for ultimate recordings 😉).

I agree. It does lack sparkle. It's that sparkle that actually sounds good on a variety of playback systems. I notice that the 1887 sounds good through headphones, monitors, but when I play it back through my Toyota Camry system, it sounds muffled and not that exciting. I think the Garritan CFX sparkle would come through better in my car.

CyberGene But I'm more impressed with your constant progress at the piano, your very balanced harmonic approaches, tritone substitutions, etc. stuff I haven't heard you doing before, kudos for that 🙂

Praise the Lord! 🙂 Duane Shinn's courses and Greg Howlett's chord substitution course is the reason for that. The latter course was given to me by a very nice person on Pianoworld. He also gave me several other Howlett courses that have been a major blessing.

God Bless,
David

David B @jdg78 I know you got a great deal on this piano, even better than my +50% off. How often do you play it now?

I love the 1887 Steinway, and have been using it quite a bit lately. It's got a beautifully warm, mellow tone with just enough vintage character to sound recognizably from a different era, but still modern and versatile enough to work in more contemporary music (as your demo amply demonstrates). The playability is great, the recording is faithful and present, and overall I think it's VSL's strongest piano release in years.

Speaking of which, I've actually been having a bit of a renaissance with the VSL pianos in general recently. I hadn't been using them as frequently over the past year, ever since the Modern D and (more recently) the Korg SGX-2 were released, both of which seemed to offer a slight edge in overall playability. In particular, they felt a little more immediate under my fingers and more responsive in fast passages, trills and ornaments, etc, which is important to me as I play a lot of baroque and classical era repertoire.

However, since the latest Synchron player update about a month ago that introduced controller-specific velocity curves, I've been able to get the Synchron pianos to feel just as quick and responsive under the fingers as the Modern D and Korg. The trick for me was to try a new velocity curve in combination with a boost to the "MIDI response" level and corresponding adjustments to the dynamic range. The difference is extremely noticeable and feels closer to playing a real piano than it ever did before.

I've always strongly preferred the sound of the VSL pianos over the Modern D (which I was never really wild about sound-wise), but now that the playability gap has largely disappeared, I don't really find myself having much desire to go back to the Modern D, as it just sounds somewhat bland and dull in comparison.

I would say the Modern D still has an advantage in that the pedaling feels a bit more natural and they have real una corda samples, but apart from that, I find myself preferring VSL in almost every other aspect. They've even now included MIDI recording and playback functionality within the Synchron player, which is super useful and something that no other sampled piano software (apart from Pianoteq) includes, at least to my knowledge.

I also really appreciate the fact that they are continually updating and improving their products and adding new features at no additional charge even years after the initial release (unlike say, Pianoteq, who expects you to shell out another $50 or whatever it is every time a new version comes out with only marginal changes). It shows a commitment to improvement and level of respect for their customers that I don't think any other major developer matches.

jdg78 I love the 1887 Steinway, and have been using it quite a bit lately. It's got a beautifully warm, mellow tone with just enough vintage character to sound recognizably from a different era, but still modern and versatile enough to work in more contemporary music (as your demo amply demonstrates). The playability is great, the recording is faithful and present, and overall I think it's VSL's strongest piano release in years.

My feeling also.

jdg78 However, since the latest Synchron player update about a month ago that introduced controller-specific velocity curves, I've been able to get the Synchron pianos to feel just as quick and responsive under the fingers as the Modern D and Korg.

Now this is interesting because nothing has changed in the way the velocity curve editor worked before the update besides the input/output being displayed while you run the pointer along the curve line (which is very helpful). Essentially, though, nothing is different. Was it the inclusion of the sample curves that helped or inspired you to tweak your curve?

jdg78 I would say the Modern D still has an advantage in that the pedaling feels a bit more natural and they have real una corda samples, but apart from that, I find myself preferring VSL in almost every other aspect.

I remember you not feeling too impressed with the Una corda samples on the 1887. I can hear the difference in timbre and volume when the pedal is pressed. It's not very dramatic, but it's clearly there to my aging ears. I believe the Una corda samples are authentic and not an EQ effect like on the rest of the Synchron Pianos. Do you think they are not authentic samples?

jdg78 I also really appreciate the fact that they are continually updating and improving their products and adding new features at no additional charge even years after the initial release (unlike say, Pianoteq, who expects you to shell out another $50 or whatever it is every time a new version comes out with only marginal changes). It shows a commitment to improvement and level of respect for their customers that I don't think any other major developer matches.

Agreed. Now if they would just add a sus2 feature - or something comparable to improve string and pedal resonance - like on the Vienna Imperial, VSL would be king of the virtual piano hill.

God Bless,
David

David B Now this is interesting because nothing has changed in the way the velocity curve editor worked before the update besides the input/output being displayed while you run the pointer along the curve line (which is very helpful). Essentially, though, nothing is different. Was it the inclusion of the sample curves that helped or inspired you to tweak your curve?

Yes, that's true - all these capabilities technically existed before. It was more a case of me discovering a new way of optimizing them spurred on in part by the new velocity curve presets. Having a bunch of velocity settings pre-loaded in the system allowed me to quickly and easily cycle through a whole variety of different cures that I hadn't really considered before, and I found that some of them (rather counterintuitively) worked better than what I was coming up with on my own.

I also found a user that encouraged experimenting with the MIDI sensitivity setting for optimal resuits. I had previously left the MIDI sensitivity setting alone as I assumed it was just a cruder, less precise version of the velocity curve editor, but I found that adjusting this in conjunction with the velocity curve actually made the touch a lot more precise and responsive than relying on the velocity curve alone, at least on my particular keyboard. All together, these adjustments substantially raised the playability for all of the Synchron pianos, and put them on more of a level footing with the Modern D and Korg engines.

David B I remember you not feeling too impressed with the Una corda samples on the 1887. I can hear the difference in timbre and volume when the pedal is pressed. It's not very dramatic, but it's clearly there to my aging ears. I believe the Una corda samples are authentic and not an EQ effect like on the rest of the Synchron Pianos. Do you think they are not authentic samples?

I was speaking more generally of the VSL pianos as lacking real una corda, and not the 1887 Steinway in particular. The 1887 does have indeed real una corda samples, although I find the effect more subtle than you typically get on a modern grand. Still, I'm very glad they included them, and I really hope this means they will start including sampled una corda on all their new releases going forward.

David B @QuasiUnaFantasia You seem to have a refined taste and are knowledgeable on a broad range of subjects, does this 1887 appeal to you?

A comment such as that one is sure to boost my ego beyond its already inflated level. 😁

I do like the sound of vintage instruments; I grew up with a grand from that same era, and I much prefer the "old" style of sound (actually old styles, because there was more diversity in earlier times). I also like this particular Steinway, but I felt the bass part of the frequency spectrum was too dominant, and I would have wanted the bass equalized somewhat down. Also, you have applied more reverb than I would have done, so there is relatively more of the room to hear and relatively less of the instrument itself, than I would have chosen. All in all, I would love to play that virtual Steinway regularly.

Also, I have to mention that I too am impressed with your playing. It's very sensitive and beautiful.

QuasiUnaFantasia I also like this particular Steinway, but I felt the bass part of the frequency spectrum was too dominant, and I would have wanted the bass equalized somewhat down.

I felt the bass was a bit too boomy as well and that's why I removed the tube mic from the Player surround to stereo preset. It seemed to remove some of that boomy sound. I don't know if you got a chance to hear some recordings of the actual instrument, but the bass is more natural sounding to my ears in the video below. I don't know why that is. Maybe once you lose some of the sympathetic resonance during the sampling process, more of the fundamental is left, and that's why the bass seems a bit more boomy in the finished product? I'm ignorant and I really don't know what I'm talking about but I'm sure there is an explanation for the difference.

God bless,
David

David B Now if they would just add a sus2 feature - or something comparable to improve string and pedal resonance - like on the Vienna Imperial, VSL would be king of the virtual piano hill.

Yes I think they could improve by adding a little bit of modelling. In particular, a new string resonance thing that would basically leave the sound intact, just make resonance work 😉 Their current resonance is toned down or off by default, because it wrecks the sound if dialled up to suitable resonance level. The same thing that I was experiencing when experimenting with simple sidechaining of Ptq resonance to other VSTs. They don't even support silent keypress for resonance.

Tweaking the input curve sure improved my VSL experience. I've noticed you've adjusted a few keys individually. I was too lazy to fiddle with this, but have noticed that several of their models would benefit from certain response equalisation, I assume this could be done automatically, perhaps in different ways (I've never experienced such a thing with a built-in piano engine). Otherwise, the playability is mostly okay with me.

It will probably be difficult to get una corda samples to pianos that lack them, but perhaps they could cheat, offer ways to mod the default samples for una corda.

I find the 1887 in the top half of the VSL pianos I've tried. Synchron B. Imperial would be my top pick (haven't tried the Studio version), followed by the F307. But I've got Modern D and and G.CFX and don't think hoarding piano VSTs makes much sense to me, especially if they're not perfect in all aspects. Will likely succumb come next discount season if they fix these things 😉