Modern D vs Pianoteq

dikrek · 2026-03-05T01:51:23+00:00

Hi all, making this its own post - thanks for the feedback on the other thread. It became clear we need a great real performance to compare, not some robotic MIDI file, so I used David's own (obviously I don't have the proper velocity curve but let's see). This is his performance on YouTube: Here are 3 renditions with Pianoteq. debussy-lai-sunken-cathedral-hbd.mp3 debussy-lai-sunken-cathedral-nyd.mp3 debussy-lai-sunken-cathedral-bluthner.mp3 @HZPiano to your earlier point - I feel I can connect with the music with this tone. Still lipstick on a pig? 🙂 @David Lai I didn't try to get exactly the recording tone of Modern D but more the essence. @QuasiUnaFantasia still hear a Wurli player mixed with a synth bass player? @David B compare to v8 and tell me if it sounds better to you. @emily still xylophone? 🙂 @Pete14 constructive comments if possible 🙂

David Lai

Pete14 Not working for them, just maybe sponsored by them, or being directed by them to say certain things.

David Lai

dikrek Well, OK, you're asking me to give up my standards, but unfortunately, I won't do that. I'll continue to say that PianoTeq is synthetic, because it is.

That said, yes, there are things people like about different piano VSTs. I'm not suggesting that those who prefer PianoTeq over sampled piano VSTs is deaf, because I know there are those who frankly like it. But to blindly say, like Pete14, that modeling is simply the future and we should throw out sample libraries is not OK, because as the current stage of what it sounds like, it's far from perfect or sounding great for that matter.

You may have failed discovering what it is that makes PTQ divisive among folks here, but at least you get to hear my take on what it is for quite a while now…

Pete14

David Lai Not working for them, just maybe sponsored by them, or being directed by them to say certain things.

Hmm…🤔

Pete14

David Lai But to blindly say, like Pete14, that modeling is simply the future and we should throw out sample libraries is not OK…

Yes, Pianoteq is “the future-now,” and yes, I’ve “advised” that this is a good time to sell all your sampling stocks.

I’m simply trying to help y’all get out of the way of the oncoming boulder that’s about to hit soon (AI-powered modeling), and selling all your sampling stocks is the only way out (of the way of this huge, crushing boulder)….

P.S.

You can thank me later…..

CyberGene

Pete14 why does AI need to improve Pianoteq? Are you saying it’s not good? 🧐

Pete14

CyberGene why does AI need to improve Pianoteq? Are you saying it’s not good?

Is that a trick question?

Surely, even “perfection” can be improved….🤔

CyberGene

I was once banned on PW for discussing Soviet cars in a digital piano thread. Well, guess who’s gonna ban me now? 😈

David Lai

Pete14 Thank you for continuing to preach rubbish. I, for one, won't do what you suggest. However, instead of asking people to sell their PianoTeq sound packs, I won't do this sort of thing. I'd let them just keep it to themselves and bear with the synthetic pain.

See, I'm more kind than you.

Pete14

CyberGene

Honestly, the LADA seems perfectly fine to me….😁

Note: my comment is specifically about the LADA (not comparing to any VST… specifically)….

dikrek

Back at it:

This is @David Lai latest file:

https://pianoclack.s3.us-east-1.amazonaws.com/2026-03-09/1773074583-32473-debussy-solo-mix.mp3

Trying something different. Not just a different model but something new.

debussy-lai-sunken-cathedral-v2-280vc-player-slew4.mp3

Here's my last NY D attempt for completeness.

debussy-lai-sunken-cathedral-nyd-player.mp3

Which of the Pianoteq ones is more realistic? (apologies for the missing notes in the 280VC version but it's the demo)

David Lai

dikrek A bit harsh on the first example, especially the softer passages. Also, the treble on the first rendering sounds synth-y. The bass on the first rendering sounds like a bass guitar, not piano bass. Modern D still wins in both tone and realism.

johanibraaten

dikrek I think you're doing some interesting things here. It's funny though, but your last example reminds me of a Shigeru Kawai more than a Steinway (and I don't mean that's bad so please don't take this as criticism), especially the bass and the resonance. More so than the SK-EX within Pianoteq.

QuasiUnaFantasia

dikrek Both samples are not all that bad when played pp and p, but it starts falling apart when the volume increases. It is as if the individual notes are "wrapped" in some protective layer so they can't really be heard in their fullness. I noticed that this bothers me more with the reverb than with the actual direct tone itself. The effect is that of massive and extremely unpleasant distortion. Another way to state it is that the notes sound like they are not free but artificially restrained.

Also, the octave below middle C sounds more synthetic than the rest in the NY D.

dikrek

QuasiUnaFantasia if I could pick one to iterate, which one should it be? NY D or 280VC? (Seems like @johanibraaten already leans towards NY D).

I’ll not change the piano at all but just any extra processing and do them one by one.

QuasiUnaFantasia

dikrek NY D.

johanibraaten

QuasiUnaFantasia It is as if the individual notes are "wrapped" in some protective layer so they can't really be heard in their fullness.

That’s the exact feeling I get when I play Roland pianos. I used to describe it like I need to push through some kind of membrane (that never breaks) to get to the full tone. I don’t get that feeling when playing Pianoteq.

dikrek (Seems like @johanibraaten already leans towards NY D).

Definitely. When Pianoteq released the 280VC I thought they’ve taken a big step forward in bass realism and found it superior in that region over the other instruments. But since version 9 I think they’ve improved their Steinways so now I think their NYD is their most believable model overall. I prefer the Steinway B for my own playing though.

dikrek

johanibraaten right, I NEVER liked the Pianoteq D before v9, now I think it’s way better. Tried some stuff with the B and it may be more realistic though.

Anyway, let’s iterate on the D first.

David Lai

dikrek Good luck putting on make-up, and try to make that person more beautiful on the outside… Fun fact, it's still what it is, so it won't work. Synthetic is synthetic, you can't change that.

dikrek

David Lai in the immortal words of Tom Waits, “there’s nothing wrong with her that a $100 can’t fix” 🙂

Anyway, jokes aside, let’s see if what I change fixes at least one element of the audio that @CyberGene mentioned (the distortions). Which curiously nobody else picked up on (or maybe they didn’t know how to describe it).