Pianoteq or sampled libraries?

Nik · 2025-03-22T11:27:46+00:00

Greetings to you readers, I’m considering purchasing a new VST, and Pianoteq has caught my attention. On the forums, I’ve read various pros and cons compared to using a sampled library, and one of my main doubts was about the sound quality, which initially didn’t fully convince me. However, after listening to some demos of older versions and comparing them to the more recent ones, I’ve noticed a significant improvement. I would primarily use it for practicing, as the feel it provides on my keyboard is very similar to that of an acoustic piano. In your opinion, could this be a valid choice? Do you think the gap in terms of sound will be further reduced in the coming years?

Pete14

CyberGene Pianoteq has almost hit a plateau and the prospects of it reaching sampled libraries in terms of timbre realism seems a hundred years away unless there’s some technological breakthrough.

Interesting, because Stu just did a VST review/comparison, and he seemed quite happy with the Shigeru-teq!

I truly don’t believe that Pianoteq has hit its limit, and perhaps the reason they don’t go “all in” is simply due to keeping their requirements low, so that they can market Pianoteq as “the only VST that can run on your grandma’s computer;” however, considering that now we can get massive computing power for cheap (Mac Mini?), I wouldn’t be surprised if they started to up the ante more aggressively…….

Surely, I’m hoping the upcoming version 9 does something for you; perhaps not convert you altogether, but at least convince you enough to shell out for the Pro version……🤔

CyberGene

Pete14 Stu just did a VST review/comparison, and he seemed quite happy with the Shigeru-teq!

Stu is a Kawai salesmen and the Shigeru-teq was a collaboration between the two companies, so naturally Stu is shilling for it 😉

Pete14

CyberGene Stu is a Kawai salesmen and the Shigeru-teq was a collaboration between the two companies, so naturally Stu is shilling for it

😁

I have to admit, whenever he compares a Yamaha to a Kawai, the Kawai somehow always seems to win; however, he does with such finesse that some might just miss it.

For example, he compared the N1X to the Novus NV10, and amongst many subtle things, he said that the N1X was replicating the experience of a smaller grand; whereas, the Novus that of a larger one; but of course, he goes on to say that this is not necessarily a bad thing (for the N1X), but just something to point out; whence the reality is that larger grands are better than smaller ones in every sense…..😆

Now, I do like Stu (despite), and when he does reviews of just one instrument (no comparisons) he tends to be more transparent, if still a bit overly optimistic.

Take this review of the GP6; where he is blown away by the overall experience, etc, etc….however, he does mention a point about the older Rolands “rushing” between mf to fff, and how this has been improved for the newer models. Now, I’ve not played the newer models, but he is 100% correct about the “jumpy” velocity curve in some older Rolands:

pipAT

Respects to all dedicated developers of excellent sampled, modeled, hardware, ai-trained virtual pianos and real piano manufacturers! Huge sound palette and choices of sound for various needs and interests.

pianow

MacMacMac

i agree that most high end piano libs are not worth it, especially if you're not a professional musician (who's making money using those instruments)

the best bang for the buck is ni noire imo, it's inexpensive, playable, well recorded and you get a decent amount of flexibility with it especially cause it offers two different sample sets (felt and pure)

anyway i think the pianoteq pro is a very good tool, if you're ready to spend that much money at least, you can only feel how versatile pianoteq is when you unlock its per note capabilities, most of the problems i had with this piano vst is gone, does it sound a little bit synthetic even after so much editing? yea but that tiny bit doesn't bother me at all, i think it can ruin a playing experience for most people here but I'm not that concerned

mostly because it offers everything else in a way that no other vst company does, and it sits in arrangements so well, most of my beloved sampled pianos are simply unable to sound good in the context of a mix but ptq does that without even trying…

Pete14

pianow the best bang for the buck is ni noire imo, it's inexpensive, playable, well recorded and you get a decent amount of flexibility with it especially cause it offers two different sample sets (felt and pure)

Okay, so now we know who you work for!

And here, I thought you were working for VSL!

pianow

Pete14

yea alright i laughed, you did you job well…

but read the entire thing.

Pete14

😉

David Lai

pianow Interesting. So I think as long as the piano is hidden in the background, a synth like Pianoteq wouldn't be too bad. But it's completely not fit for solo work, like what I do. Modern D all the way for me.

pianow

David Lai no dave not hidden in the background, i said in the context of a mix, means when other instruments are also involved like when there is bass and drums not just when the piano is a soft chord pad in the background while an entire orchestra is blasting out at you… the m.d is also good for such scenarios but sometimes it sounds less punchy then it should, mostly because it's a studio piano and not a classically voiced one, I have high hopes for the vsl vintage d.

the only vst i got that never disappoints me is ni noire, both playing and arranging, it makes my life easier.

Chromatic

Nik

For years I used various piano sample libraries (Ivory, East West, etc and I liked VI Labs Ravenscroft the best) and within the past 6 months discovered Pianoteq 8.

P8 has totally floored me with the adjustability.

It can be overwhelming but my advice for any getting started is this:

-Start with any basic factory preset that sounds overall best to you.

-turn off all the preset's EQ and effects

-switch to binaural mode

So now you are hearing basically the pure model that the French geniuses built for us!

-fiddle with a few parameters to learn how they impact the fundamental sound

But be warned--huge rabbit hole risk for hours of time obsessing over sound design. You were warned, at least.

However, for simplicity my current process is starting with a factory preset and then all I do is play with the microphone settings.

By adjusting only the mic settings I can get almost any tone imaginable.

The mic part is the most amazing part of P8

MacMacMac

The rabbit hole is where you try to get Pianoteq to sound like a piano.
And you try. And try. And try. Without success.
Then you concede defeat and you wait until the next version.
But the next version is scarcely different from its predecessor. You try and you try. Without success.

I tried with Pianoteq v2. Terrible. Disgusting. Really.
I tried with Pianoteq v3. Big improvement ... but still unacceptable.
I tried with Pianoteq v4. Small improvement. Still unacceptable.
I tried with Pianoteq v5 and 6 and 7 and 8. With these they introduced "new" pianos, and assorted other instruments.
But the sound hasn't improved, and none of them satisfy.

pianow

MacMacMac I tried with Pianoteq v5 and 6 and 7 and 8. With these they introduced "new" pianos, and assorted other instruments.
But the sound hasn't improved, and none of them satisfy.

i agree to everything you've said but i wanna talk about this one, i don't know why a modeling company should release different instrument packs? i mean i've been able to get any kind of sound out of ptq (not saying that they were any more realistic then what ptq is already known for - but they were different) and even replicate their other instruments with only one of them, that's what modeling is, i can't believe there are people who would pay 50-60 dollars to get a new "preset pack" called a new instruments instead of making their own stuff

QuasiUnaFantasia

pianow Their point probably is that optimising for a particular sound, e.g. a Bösendorfer, requires changing parameter values in a very high-dimensional parameter space. That sort of optimisation is time-consuming and very, very difficult. Having it done for you, at some moderate cost, will be preferable for many. (And I suspect there are more design parameters available to Modartt than there are to end-users).

pianow

QuasiUnaFantasia

that makes sense for sure, but i see so many people who use the standard version with 15 different packs, i personally believe getting the pro version is a better investment in any way, the per note stuff in pro version is truly a game changer, there are a lot of things you can do with it. if only one of the big sampled piano had that level of versatility when it comes to per note editing (most of them don't even have per note adjustments to begin with and i suspect it's a very easy thing for companies to do, vsl offers an 88 channel eq, volume and pitch control, i think that must be a standard by now not a luxury option that only 500 dollar vsts offer)

sorry that i talk about a million different things in one comment 🙂

Pete14

pianow i personally believe getting the pro version is a better investment in any way, the per note stuff in pro version is truly a game changer, there are a lot of things you can do with it. if only one of the big sampled piano had that level of versatility when it comes to per note editing (most of them don't even have per note adjustments to begin with and i suspect it's a very easy thing for companies to do, vsl offers an 88 channel eq, volume and pitch control, i think that must be a standard by now not a luxury option that only 500 dollar vsts offer)

Hmm, you & I seem to be agreeing a bit too much (as of recent), so something must be a bit off, or the planets are misaligned, or something, but still, yes, at this point, at least note-per-note volume/timbre/character should be standard!

Sometimes it’s not that there’s anything “wrong” with the VST, but rather with the acoustics the piano is being played in, so, for example, certain notes/frequencies can be overly amplified whilst others dampened, so, having the ability to remedy this (to certain extent) by adjusting individual notes’ volume/timbre is highly useful, and I’m not sure what’s holding these people back (surely, it can’t be that expensive to implement this?) 🤔

OlivierW

It’s a fact: the sound of VI Labs Modern D far surpasses all the Steinways in Pianoteq 8 and sounds more natural than the Shigeru (which is disappointing) and the Bösendorfer in PTQ. Modartt needs to increase the size and quality of their base samples before modeling them. I hope Pianoteq 9 will get rid of the vibraphone-like quality of Pianoteq. VI Labs Modern D makes all the Ivory, VSL, and Pianoteq 8 pianos useless, except for Pianoteq 8, which I only use for part of the resonance during pedal transitions with the VI Labs Modern D (I’m waiting for the VI Labs update for the SSR transition from pedal down to up when keys remain pressed while releasing the sustain pedal).

QuasiUnaFantasia

Pete14 having the ability to remedy this (to certain extent) by adjusting individual notes’ volume/timbre is highly useful

I agree, but there is more to it, because the frequencies that should be attenuated occur to various degrees in other keys also. Where my piano is located the G#2 key sounds much louder than other keys, regardless of the VI used. Softening that key would help, but there would still be issues with other keys having the G#2 fundamental as part of its frequency spectrum. An equalizer would be particularly effective here.

pianow

Pete14 Hmm, you & I seem to be agreeing a bit too much

well the return of our lord must be near pete 🙂

Pete14 Sometimes it’s not that there’s anything “wrong” with the VST, but rather with the acoustics the piano is being played in, so, for example, certain notes/frequencies can be overly amplified whilst others dampened, so, having the ability to remedy this (to certain extent) by adjusting individual notes’ volume/timbre is highly useful, and I’m not sure what’s holding these people back (surely, it can’t be that expensive to implement this?)

exacty, most of them think they've prepared and recorded their piano so well that it doesn't need that level of editability but they're wrong,there's always something to be corrected, and the cause of that is silly - there is no correct way to do it - everybody is different, and to their ears there's always something to fix, for most people the problem is mostly the acoustics as you mentioned, the room just doesn't treat every frequency the same as others, and that can be overlooked and ignored while playing in the studio but a sampled instruments repeats the same bug over and over again until you cannot unhear it anymore and because of that you must be able to fix it, and again as you mentioned it's not an expensive addition, it's as simple as it gets, at least for companies that are able to sample and model so many details and putting them in a playable software without shitting all over the planet, implementing such features must be "piece of cake".

MacMacMac

pianow ... i can't believe there are people who would pay 50-60 dollars to get a new "preset pack" called a new instruments instead of making their own stuff

Agree. I guess the marketing guys took over and they found a nice "cheat".
"You don't have to click the buttons and turn the knobs! We'll click them and turn them for you ... for only $50. Such a bargain!"

I just wish Pianoteq would sell ONE piano that sounded like a piano.

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