Modern D vs Pianoteq vs The People

RIP · 2024-10-05T13:59:24+00:00

As a Sunday clacker (note1) here are my impressions: Modern D may be very good, perhaps even "the ultimate" VST, but it's not for me because it does not have a demo and because I'm fed up with both Mac and Windows computers and I would accept only a Linux version or a tablet (don't say they don't have enough storage or CPU, since some of them have more storage or CPU than my desktop). And by the way, I wonder how this compares with @dore_m Experience pianos rather than the others you mentioned. @David Lai you might tell them this feedback (Linux/Tablet and giving demo) if you care. WRT the demo, some people would say "you can't download 18GB for a demo", so let me pre-emtively respond: a) my download speed allows that pretty easily, and I'm on the cheaper/slower tier of my internet provider, and the vendor could put it on a peer-to-peer network if they can't afford the extra load on their servers b) I would be happy to entertain a demo with say only half the keys working for 9GB, even more "crippled" than the pianoteq demo. Some people love, some people hate Pianoteq. A few (or maybe a lot, but they "look like" they are a few simply because they are just not vocal?) like it for what it is or at least can live with it. I am in the latter category. I agree with what most (or are they just the most vocal?) people on this forum say, i.e. that the sound is unsatisfactory. But then everything else that I could try with a demo or soundcloud recordings (excluding Modern D which I did not have time to listen to) has an unsatisfactory sound too. Each one sound is unsatisfactory in a different way, so I picked the one that I could live with, and which I like for other characteristics (I like its user interface a lot, again, not perfect but much better than others that I tried, it runs on Linux, both Intel and ARM) and policies (I love that they have a demo, which I used to make my mind before deciding to buy it). If you can't live (and let live) with the previous bullet, I'm very sorry for you and I'm not going to engage in a live and let die thread Speaking of which, I'm really appalled to see hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of messages on the Modern D and Pianoteq so devoid of useful content (heck, even devoid of useful opinions!). Well, I'm sure there is some useful content in there, but it's so buried in repeated and repeated and repeated attacks to each other's point of view that makes me really wonder if you guys have a life. I mean we somewhat drove off the site KFB and SP because they flooded the forum with lots of repetitive comments and then we do it ourselves? What a shame! I think this is just a self-feeding trolling, from which we have no way out until "the world will explode" as somewhat I said already so I won't repeat myself (note2) (note1): in Italian, a very common derogatory way of addressing people that do something at a very low level only when they have time, the dictionary says it's the same in English, but I've never heard it in 20 years - so note that I am purposefully insulting myself (note2): that conversation was about an off-topic politics discussion and this is on-topic, but I see the same attitude and it sadden me in the same way, and mutatis mutande I feel about these new threads exactly I expressed at the time, e.g. at the link below. https://pianoclack.com/forum/d/1021-thats-called-whoopin-your-ass/36

CyberGene

Pete14 Wait, you once “worked” for Pianoteq, and then decided to become a whistleblower? 😉

I thought you knew that. Many people know I’ve been on PT beta test team long ago, I’ve mentioned it numerous times on PW 😃

pipAT

One great thing about VILBAS pianos is that their "modelling" or programming doesn't include noticeable sample distortion or artifacts, while I saw here, pw and vc, people report artifacts in the tone of Ivory 3 probably because of the hybrid modelling.

Pete14

Honestly, CG, I didn’t know!

And, since we’re being honest, I’ll admit it, I was one of those who thought it a “physical model” until you came along and ruined that for us.

You know, CG, sometimes it’s okay to be a little bit oblivious to what’s happening behind the curtains, and perhaps you could’ve been a bit more gentle in breaking the news to us; because there’s nothing wrong with believing that Houdini was a “real” magician, and not just a trickster, but now you’ve ruined that for us, and on top of it, you won’t even give us a little hope that some day the magic will be real…….”It’ll never happen,” you say!

pipAT

AI could train a piano library, but there hasn't been one yet I know. I only know Dreamtonics trained AI voice packs. They have standard voice packs but sounds like Vocaloid you know. Creepy unnatural voice singers, however many fans still like that.

CyberGene

BTW, beta testing for PT is volunteering. They found me on PW I guess (I was hating PT as always) and contacted me. We are not paid (I think I got free license for the version at the time) and we are not told how it works, nor any internal knowledge 🙂 I think Philippe once replied to me that my interpretation of their patent is not completely right (but he didn’t say it was completely wrong either) and he also said the patent is old and they have added many new things. He never explained any details though. He’s a very nice and knowledgeable guy as can be expected. What I am afraid though is, as the sole mastermind behind all of it, it’s only him who can make things better, yet he doesn’t have the ear of a recording engineer (hope he’s not insulted by my opinion) and is probably why he can’t approach the piano sound the way some of us expect it and there’s no one else who can do something. I hope I’m wrong 🙂

Pete14

CyberGene What I am afraid though is, as the sole mastermind behind all of it, it’s only him who can make things better, yet he has no the ear of a recording engineer (hope he’s not insulted by my opinion) and is probably why he can’t approach the piano sound the way some of us expect it and there’s no one else who can do something. I hope I’m wrong 🙂

But I’m assuming he has a “team” giving him constant feedback and helping in the process; it can’t just be Philippe all on his own, even though he most certainly has the last word….

Pete14

pipAT AI could train a piano library…

Are you saying there’s hope? 🤔

CyberGene

Pete14 there’s certainly a team but I think Philippe is the one behind the math, the rest is rather software engineers, etc. I guess it’s obvious but we weren’t employees or something like that 😃 We didn’t have a contract. We were just piano enthusiasts on the Internet who were being sent multiple alpha/beta pre-releases and were expected to provide feedback through email and in an internal forum. Nothing else.

Pete14

CyberGene I guess it’s obvious but we weren’t employees or something like that 😃 We didn’t have a contract..

Dare I be the devil’s advocate here?

Perhaps you weren’t under a contract, but there was a quid pro quo of sorts, so, is it fair to say that you were at least a “consultant” for Pianoteq?

pipAT

I believe there are still rooms for improvements for PTQ. Otherwise, well known piano manufacturers won't easily give their certifications to PTQ to ruin their brands and fames for a piece of "toy-like" synth.

CyberGene

Pete14 is it fair to say that you were at least a “consultant” for Pianoteq?

I’d love to think that way. But it’s also possible that my feedback wasn’t useful to them and they didn’t take it in mind 😃 But I’ve had replies from Philippe on some of my feedback regarding very concrete remarks about the sound of particular notes. Now, what I’m gonna say is surely arrogant but sometimes the next alpha had great two or three notes fixed following my feedback, but on the next alpha it got screwed up and I wondered if any of my other “colleagues” could be the one to blame 😃 At the time I got frustrated with the constant setback after a slight progress and (arrogantly) thought that if it was only me giving feedback, or if I had access to the internal workings of PT, the result would’ve been much better 😄 IMHO!

pianow

pipAT Otherwise, well known piano manufacturers won't easily give their certification to PTQ to ruin the

there are plenty of vi manufacturers that claim brand names for their products
like native instruments stradivari violin
it says it's a Stradivarius violin but nobody gives a F because there's no f+king way this vst is even comparable to a good violinist with a real stradivari
it's just a name, a marketing bullshit if you ask me
nobody would think with buying that vst they'd have a Stradivarius violin and an outstanding player (for that you need to deal with a real player, a real stradivari and expressive studie time)

and that's also true with the ptq, it says steinway but only stupid people who can't tell the difference between pianos and guitars would accept that (and those people aren't the market place for acoustic piano companies such as steinway and sons)

QuasiUnaFantasia

Pete14 And, since we’re being honest, I’ll admit it, I was one of those who thought it a “physical model” until you came along and ruined that for us.

I certainly believe that Pianoteq is a physical model. "Physical model" simply means that the model is based on an understanding of how the underlying system works. Since Pianoteq includes sliders for piano length, hammer hardness, and soundboard impedance, it seems overwhelmingly plausible that it is a physical model. It does not need to be based on finite elements in order to be a "physical model".

pipAT

I thought e-instruments borrowed these historical instruments from a museum. These are masterpiece of historical makers, not belong to still running business companies. Yes, there are cases of famous companies playing this kind of game. Approved by one or two maybe not so hard, there are 7. I wish Garritan could get another authorized certification from Steinway.

pianow

pipAT
yea they're a piece of history but a lot of people still have them
and you won't believe this, a single stradivari violin costs 17 - 25 million dollars💀

pianow

pipAT I thought e-instruments borrowed these historical instruments from a museum.

i wish they've done a better job with them, the playability of this series is very bad, the legato sounds are super hard edged and annoying and there's a certain digital quality to all of them that disgusts me

i find the emotional violin to be a lot better but still it's not as playable as something like audio modeling swam violin

Pete14

QuasiUnaFantasia

Thank you! That’ll help me sleep better tonight, and what the heck, I’ll go back to calling it “physical modeling” even if it’s not “physical” per se! 😁

Let’s get physical, physical…..I wanna get physical, physical…..(remember that song? Oh, they don’t make ‘em like they used to)……

pipAT

pianow Maybe they were afraid to break these dearly instruments and the museum wouldn't allow players do aggressive movements. The tone is quite nasal.

QuasiUnaFantasia

Pete14 Let’s get physical, physical…..I wanna get physical, physical…..(remember that song?

Best thing since Xanadu. 🙂

pipAT

Pete14 Physical modelling didn't surprised me. They called PTQ 4th generation of piano. It's great in some ways. I didn't buy that honestly, even though I like it.

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