Irmin C64 where I learnt 6502 assembly and had hours of fun making music with the SID Chip
Yes! Same here! Likewise on my Oric (the only one I still have!) which featured a 6510, same assembler language as the 6502. I built interfaces for that to operate peripherals and whatnot. So much fun.
Cheers and happy 8-bit days,
HZ
My first computer was far newer than any of the ones mentioned here. It was a late-2000 Compaq with a 1 GHz Athlon, 128 MB of RAM, and a 40 GB HDD.
I wonder how well it would have run the virtual pianos of its day. I probably would have needed to max out the RAM (384 MB, IIRC), but the other specs are close to what most people would have had in the early 00s.
If I'd gotten started with VIs earlier, I could have experienced libraries like the original version of The Grand and all the Post Musical Instruments stuff. I've sometimes thought it might be fun to get an early-2000s era system running and seek out early virtual pianos to see what they were like. Folks playing with this stuff back then could only dream about the kinds of libraries we enjoy today.
in vi control forum people are talking about the bit depth of the modern d, not confirmed by the company itself but it's probably 16bit - 44100hz
some people are complaining about it being outdated or whatever, i wanted to talk about it.
the 16bit audio is completely fine for "most" dynamic recordings (we're talking about music, not samples)
of course the 24bit is better cause it has a wider range to work with, but when it comes to samples, they're not dynamic, they're some single shot audio clips, recorded at a certain level, so what's the point of having 24 bit samples? of course i don't have a single problem with virtual instruments being 100 - 200 or even 300GBs (like vsl, they're using 24bit depth and that's a part their Pianos being so heavy - like c'mon 90gb for a compressed vi?)
but for most people it's a deciding factor, so i think vilabs people were smart to go with such strategy
if someone is recording a piano concerto (on an acoustic piano using preamps and microphones), I'd say go with the 24 or 32 bit audio cause it's safer (the music you wanna record is highly dynamic, although 16 bit audio is fine but when you have the option to work with a "safer" depth why not?, though a sample as i mentioned is a different story, the whole dynamic movement in the samples is their ADSR, and that's much lower then what 16 bit is able to handle, 16bit audio is capable of capturing almost 100db of dynamic range) anyway i wouldn't mind if vilabs decides to release a 96khz 32bit float (700GB) version of their modern d but I'm sure 99 percent of the people won't notice a thing.
so yea the 24bit is (imo) not necessary, heavy but cool.
16bit is completely fine, and it's easier to work with.
I guess the old Vienna Imperial is also delievered in 16bit 44.1khz audios. But Truekeys used to show on Machfive player, and it was much larger in size than its UVI version. Of course, there are developers who are willing to offer diffferent bit depth versions like Impact Soundworks Pearl Grand, Production Voices Grand 2, Premier Sound Factory Kawai Legend etc. Also there are wars between 16bit vs 24bit, and 44.1 vs higher frequencies. Discussions about these have been going on for years in Gearslutz or now Gearspace.
Acousticsamples released a Kontakt version Kawai EX in 2010 or so, later the developer did a UVI version which is only 1/10 the size of Kontakt one. I tried both versions. The difference I could sense was quite subtle. I kind of felt the Kontakt was warm and thick. The UVI was bland like boiled water. I wish had nulltested both versions to make sure there was difference.
For me, there is difference, but at a cost. I am totally fine with 16bit 44.1khz products.
pipAT
i can only accept blind tests when it comes to bit depth and sample rate
cause most people just feel the one with higher numbers is the higher quality one, but only if they'd know
imagine playing 2 examples of the exact same audio clip (with the only difference being the bit depth and sample rate)
and then ask people about the differences, i think the only people who can spot the differences are those 1% professional engineers with super gifted ears
the only company i don't understand is the production voices, wtf? their concert grand is just over a TB
and it's not like it has more features
it has 3 different versions with different sample rates and bit depths, i mean couldn't they just give their highest sample rate and bit depth with their most expensive version? because you can always down-sample something that is super high quality and you don't probably need lower qualities as well
PV did that for users convenience. They sold SiIver, Gold and Platinum versions separately. I used to convert Kontakt libraries myself. It was really a lot of work, and the raw wave files were three times the size of the official version. I lost a harddisk to heavy write and read process because of conversion. I finally decided to give up do conversion by myself. Synthogy Ivory 1 released in 2004 used 32bit audio. LOL. Not only users hold different opinions but developers, too.
pipAT PV did that for users convenience. They sold SiIver, Gold and Platinum version separately
i'm talking about the complete version
it has all the different sample rates and bit depths, idk really but i think one can use the highest quality and then export with a lower sample rate and bit depth (unless playing with 96khz 24bit is difficult for most machines so you have to play with lower versions and then export it with a higher sample rate and bit depth version, that makes sense - idk i never played such thing cause i don't need it - most 16 - 24bit 44100hz are more then enough)
pipAT Synthogy Ivory 1 released in 2004 uses 32bit audio. LOL.
what da đź’€
Some high definition believers even use oversampling in their DSP plugins like reaper. Me, with a humble PC, always like what VILabs and PTQ are doing.
pipAT
most people love small and easy to use/run stuff
including myself
I am not afraid of products in big size. I dislike large and unimpressive ones that hardly show advertised or accordingly big improvement.
pipAT
agreed
i had some disappointing experiences with big VSTI's
i can swear some companies do this only for marketing (poor costumer : man it's 500GB, i'm sure it's very good - F**K it lacks some really basic features that i had with my 4GB vsts that i paid only 80$ for)
In some marketing language, big in size and over-killed more in quantity, equal better, awesome, luxurious. But these "great" things or awesomeness stand in front of details and various practical functions users are eager to realize.
the explanation from the vilabs about this
**
The 16 bit in the Modern D is normalized, has up to 96db dynamic range, same as Ravenscroft and all our libraries.
We don't feel 24 bit is needed since all samples are normalized. The sample quality speaks for itself.
Also 24bit is treated as 32bit in UVI engine so the library would load using twice the ram and a lot more cpu usage.
**
as i said, they were smart
PV 300 Grand is also delivered in 16bit 44.1khz audios with 72 gigs, 36 velocity layers, 9 mic perspectives, 10k samples. Just not in flac. If Kontakt could do that later…
On the other hand, Kawai Legend is delivered in 24bit 96khz audios with 30 gigs, 18 velocity layers, 1 mic perspective, 3333 samples.
Modern D is delivered in 16bit 44.1khz with 18 gigs, guessed to 25 velocity layers, 5 mic perspectives, 34615 samples.
Just for fun.
Kawai Legend has the cleanest tone to me. 300 Grand has the most beautiful UI. Modern D has the most complete features.
pianow as i said, they were smart
Yes, and from 32 bit FP, 88.2 KHZ 130 GB wav, to normalized 16 bit 44.1 KHZ 18 GB flac. Which has better performance, it shouldn’t be hard to see. Also, not to mention that the difference is very much negligible.
That said, I wonder why I hear less noise floor when rendering in 24 bit vs 16 bit flac on Reaper? That’s actually the reason why I asked that bit depth question a while ago.
Just purchased it to see what all the fuss is about (and also because I just can't stand Pianoteqs sound anymore). It's downloading right now, I am really looking forward!
porco_rosso I hope you like it! A good response curve to your controller will be a good friend. Once you have it dialed in, you'll be experiencing a great combination of playability and realism, which I believe, is second-to-none!!!
Thanks! It's installing…
Regarding sample-based pianos I have tried VSL Pianos in the past (all of them except the Faziolis) and didn't like the playability of them. The sound felt detached from my playing.
porco_rosso Not surprised. Out-of-the-box they don't play very well, and you need a lot of tweaking to make them work. Plus, they don't have una corda, and their release samples are not natural. Modern D is more full-featured than VSL pianos, and if you want distance in your mix, turn up the room mic and add some hall reverb!
How do I start the piano in the UVI workstation?