My Desert Island Piano VST - VI Labs Modern D

Jane Hi Jane!

I was looking at your midi data, and I found some more pedal data after the notes:

134 Position:3.3.97;Channel:1;Type:CC;Parameter:Hold Pedal (on/off) (64);Value:119

135 Position:3.4.17;Channel:1;Type:CC;Parameter:Hold Pedal (on/off) (64);Value:117

136 Position:3.4.19;Channel:1;Type:CC;Parameter:Hold Pedal (on/off) (64);Value:113

137 Position:3.4.21;Channel:1;Type:CC;Parameter:Hold Pedal (on/off) (64);Value:102

138 Position:3.4.24;Channel:1;Type:CC;Parameter:Hold Pedal (on/off) (64);Value:84

139 Position:3.4.26;Channel:1;Type:CC;Parameter:Hold Pedal (on/off) (64);Value:71

140 Position:3.4.28;Channel:1;Type:CC;Parameter:Hold Pedal (on/off) (64);Value:45

141 Position:3.4.31;Channel:1;Type:CC;Parameter:Hold Pedal (on/off) (64);Value:66

142 Position:3.4.36;Channel:1;Type:CC;Parameter:Hold Pedal (on/off) (64);Value:9

143 Position:3.4.38;Channel:1;Type:CC;Parameter:Hold Pedal (on/off) (64);Value:0

144 Position:4.1.00;Channel:1;Type🙁end) All Notes Off;Value:0

These were the midi events afterward. Could it be that the sustain pedal was sending different data that overwhelmed the sample player? I think this is a great issue for the support team to take a look at.

However, I do have to say that word has it that the pianos before the N1X has some midi inconsistencies. I've certainly experienced bad time on my NU1 in China. Could it pedaling is another one of those? I don't know.

Sorry, more questions than answers, but never the less some thoughts there.

Jane I might add that listening to the audio, it sounds like some resonance sample was stuck playing to their full length.

Thanks, David,

I just re-uploaded the zipfile. It now contains a FLAC rendered from Ivory 3 using the same MIDI file which doesn't have that undamped stuff at the end.

I created a ticket on the VI Labs website but couldn't find a way to attach a file. So I stashed the zipfile on my webserver and put a link into the ticket.

The automated reply says "Your ticket has been created, our team is currently understaffed due to the holidays so please note that you may experience an unusual delay for our replies." Not sure what holidays they observe?

And sorry the playing was so crude... don't want to hurt your ears! Just wanted to demonstrate the issue I'm having.

Jane Notsure of this either, but tomorrow I’ll try emailing them as well and attach your file. Sounds strange to me, too. I’ll also test on my other VI Labs libraries. Glad you shared everything! And thank you! 🙂

David Lai However, I do have to say that word has it that the pianos before the N1X has some midi inconsistencies. I've certainly experienced bad time on my NU1 in China. Could it pedaling is another one of those?

I have an N1 which should have about the same MIDI behavior as the N3. I wouldn't say that the MIDI response is inconsistent but rather consistent and even (although it's possible that there are unit variations). It has a few naggles though that could be good to know about. The pedal sends continuous data from 1 to about 80 and then it jumps straight to 127. It also doesn't support the standard MIDI message for silent key press (Note on 1) so it's not possible to play harmonics over silent keypress in standard MIDI. Instead the N1 sends data about damper position in the Disklavier XP format where the value for silent keypress is "Damper position 127". It also sends data about damper position if you release the key slowly as the "string" is slowly dampened. However the standard MIDI dialect doesn't understand damper position data so it interprets it as "aftertouch".
The N1 also require slightly more force to reach a certain velocity in the lower part of the keyboard than in the higher regions due to the different weight/inertia of the keyboard. I think this behavior is normal though due to the nature of the acoustic action and when I've tried the N1X it showed a similar behaviour. It's also really hard to reach the highest velocity levels on the N1.

The NU1 could be another story though as it lacks hammer sensors and relying on key sensors only.

johanibraaten

Indeed! I was going to say something along these lines.

I like Simeon, his drive, his great enthusiasm, his Joy. I have bought one or two VSTis in the past because he made them sound like heaven (pun not intended!). But I quickly discovered that his enthusiasm isn't a useful yardstick for the (or my) real experience under one's own fingers and ears.

However indeed, let him keep up the good and enjoyable work he does.

Cheers!

HZ

PS So yes, @VILabs , please expand your greatness with providing demo licenses!

HZPiano PS So yes, @VILabs , please expand your greatness with providing demo licenses!

🤔

HZPiano PS So yes, @VILabs , please expand your greatness with providing demo licenses!

expand your greatness i say @VILabs

HZPiano PS So yes, @VILabs , please expand your greatness with providing demo licenses!

pianow expand your greatness i say @VILabs

+2

pianow Tomorrow at 3 PM Eastern time, he's streaming!!!

David Lai
whoa thanks Davy❤️

For those playing along at home, I got a reply from VSL VI Labs to my question about the undamped junk that often happens when I stop playing:

Hi Jane,
Thank you for reaching us,
I confirm you that this behavior is caused by the fact that the Half-Pedal feature is enabled in your instrument.
Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.
Best regards,
VI Labs, LLC Support team

So does that mean - just don't enable half-pedal? What fun is that?

Jane

me : doctor my arm is broken in 3 different places

doc : then don't to those places again, that'll be 300$

Jane So does that mean - just don't enable half-pedal? What fun is that?

Interesting. Yeah, that's strange. Maybe you could try disabling half pedal samples and try again? I've never had this issue before with the samples loaded, but maybe for your controller, it's best to not load the samples, but still keep the feature on? Just a guess.

David Lai I guess I really don't care, David. If they think this is behaving as intended then so be it.
It works correctly if I disable half pedal. Not sure what you are suggesting? It doesn't seem possible to enable half pedal without loading the samples, although it's possible to load the samples but disable half pedal.

I did try to reply to their email (even though it doesn't reference a ticket number) attaching this zipfile.
It has the same MIDI snippet rendered on the Modern D (same recording as last night), Modern U (very faint after-resonance), and Ravenscroft (very faint after-resonance).

Apparently I'm the only person complaining. But I don't find it at all enjoyable to play unless I disable half pedal.

Jane although it's possible to load the samples but disable half pedal.

It's also possible to enable half pedal but unload the samples. I've done it on my end just now as an experiment.

deleted

pianow Ivory III has modeled pedal up and down resonances, so it has less problems of the engine making decisions about when a certain sample should be played, ETC.

David Lai
btw i don't really get the problem here, what bothers jane exactly? is it a bug or it's just not enjoyable?

pianow btw i don't really get the problem here, what bothers jane exactly? is it a bug or it's just not enjoyable?

There are resonances hanging after she had completely released the sustain pedal. To me, this obviously sounds like a bug. However, it's hard to spot or fix, as they use samples, and it's left to the UVI engine (not the same developer) to make "decisions" as to when to play what sample. So the best middle ground I can think of is to unload the half pedal samples. This at least still means she can do the half pedaling if she wants to, it's just that the samples won't kick in.

It's a rare situation, in that I've never had it with my VPC 1, not even with Modern U or Ravenscroft.