New Pianoteq Model - Bösendorfer Concert Grand 280VC

NNiami · 2024-06-10T22:12:03+00:00

Hi, Just wanted to let everyone know that there is a new Pianoteq model available soon. Hopefully this will be the one to finally tip the scale towards modelled pianos over samples. More details: Authorized by Bösendorfer, the Concert Grand 280VC physical model faithfully captures the rich resonance and dynamic spectrum of the instrument, making it a true joy to play and bringing many hours of listening pleasure. It’s easy to understand why: breathtaking dynamics, astounding colours, exhilarating brilliance, a sound as clear as diamonds, yet playfully gleaming like beaming sparkles of light. Franz Liszt, Arthur Rubinstein, Victor Borge, Leonard Bernstein, Oscar Peterson, Vangelis, Tori Amos, Gonzalo Rubalcaba, Daniil Trifonov, and many more, have been using Bösendorfer pianos in their careers, leading to many prominent recordings." Finally, I believe the new pianos in Logic Pro 11 - called Studio Pianos are also Bosendorfers. More specifically the 230VC (studio grand) and 280VC (concert grand) - truly a great time to be Bosendorfer players. These are sampled pianos with a very small memory footprint.

SouthPark

Everything in this universe (which includes all the multi-verses if any, all plus nothing) is 'natural'. Nothing in the universe is actually 'unnatural'. All this development of technology - eg Pteq, and what is happening around the world - is a part of 'nature'.

NNiami

I listened to the demos and it sounds great; they finally fixed the hollow bass notes problem with this piano in my opinion.

One of the main advantages of Pianoteq is the lack of noise build up. Even the best piano sample libraries suffer from noise build up. This is one of the inherent flaws of all sample libraries. No matter how good the microphones and converters, you will always get noise build up when playing complex pieces.

It is inevitable that Pianoteq (or any other modelling software- Arturia Piano V) will eventually catch up with the best sample libraries, like VSL, Ivory, Kontakt etc.

Sample libraries have probably peaked around the time VSL Steinway and Garritan CFX were released. The VSL Steinway was released in 2018 - 6 years ago.

Notice there haven't been many advancements in sampling technology since that time. There are only so many microphones and velocity layers you can add before you hit a plateau.

However things that can be improved in Pianoteq:

Needs to take advantage of modern CPU/GPUs and offer higher resolutions within its synthesis engine.
Needs a better reverb. The current reverb is grainy and metallic sounding. If you turn off the reverb in Pianoteq and use an expensive reverb like Valhalla or ChromaVerb set to ultra quality, the pianos can sound amazing. Especially if you run your sound interface at 96khz to get rid of the aliasing.
UI can be improved - the graphics look kind of outdated and cheap. Especially those studio settings - why is there a green guitar in the studio next to the piano!

It is exciting times ahead for piano enthusiasts - I'm looking forward to Pianoteq 9 now and also Arturia's Piano V - which is due an update at the end of this year. That German piano model in Arturia's Piano V was something special and hopefully they can raise the bar further in the next update.

Mindbullets

NNiami Pianoteq (or any other modelling software- Arturia Piano V)

I'd be curious to see what Arturia does with their next modeled piano… I think V3 is Pianoteq 6 in disguise.

CyberGene

Pianoteq hasn’t made any improvements in the last few years. They only add new models but it still sounds synthetic and it seems to have hit a plateau too.

NNiami

Mindbullets

Very interesting.

The current Arturia Piano V is a hit or miss virtual instrument. The German Grand sounds lush and grandiose, but the other models in Piano V like the American, Upright and the Japanese Grand fall short for me - they sound almost like a Rhodes electric piano at low velocities which is quite disappointing.

I wonder if they are mixing Pianoteq's engine with their own DSP.

Mindbullets

NNiami Yeah, my best guess was they have access to all the hidden and standard parameters to create their own presets, and maybe do some post-processing with their own effects.

ambrozy

Making progress as slowly as competition allows is standard practice

Khuja Wangtishvili

CyberGene Pianoteq hasn’t made any improvements in the last few years. They only add new models but it still sounds synthetic and it seems to have hit a plateau too.

Exactly. Besides ptq fans, it sounds very unrealistic to me, given the timbre and very short decay/reverb (the notes are being dead quiet too fast, like there would be no room 8n which piano is placed). Whatever the variant, for its always tweaked more or less the same thing.

Unfortunately for us, a lot of people on ptq forum are th8nking that it is best, perfect and they don't need anything better.

Until they will change their modelling method from the ground - which was discussed here like year or two ago - it will still sound the same as today.

HZPiano

Mindbullets particularly prominent in the middle registers

Yes, this is the first thing I heard too. And sort-of hoped not to hear.

In fact, the nasalness (when playing the demo software) is what makes me discard any of the models so far in under a minute.

Usually, on one of those rare occasions where I just can't help myself downloading and trying the latest demo version, I find the bass interesting, the tenor to mid nasal, and higher up towards the treble too strident.

And then Cantabile quickly loads my Modern U setup instead.

Modartt are far from there yet, however I appreciate their attempts from a geeky perspective.

Cheers and happy playing,

SouthPark

If only Pteq could 'talk' back, and one day, with evolving 'a.i.' it will talk back, and then point out whether 'you' (us) qualify to use it or not. As in … we say nasal this and nasal that. And it will then say … it's a bosie sound after-all, and your skills aren't yet at a level that qualifies.

At the moment, it's just a case of boards don't hit back. So somebody has to hit back for them. And in the future, they … key boards … will hit back. They'll say … you have a heap to learn yourself in music and piano playing … so who are you to judge, and which high horse did you come from? Aka … take a look at yourself, and judge yourself instead.

pianow

CyberGene vsl demos always sound bright and metallic, i'd never listen to them when i want to add a synchron piano to my collection cause the only true way to understand how they sound/feel is to try them with my own fingers and ears, the vsl 280vc is one of my favorites, it has a very beautiful warm tone in mezzo piano range and blow and when you touch it with a little more force you get that metallic shimmer that is meant to be there, it's all about the right velocity curve for your specific keyboard,

the only two things that vsl su'cks at, are demos & presets (and the demos are using their own presets)

pianow

SouthPark

SouthPark and your skills aren't yet at a level that qualifies.

SouthPark so who are you to judge, and which high horse did you come from? Aka … take a look at yourself, and judge yourself instead.

do you know why companies like steinway, yamaha, bosendorfer, c.bechstein and lots of other real piano developers never say stupid things such as these? because their pianos don't sound like crap, they don't need to justify anything

a steinway is a steinway, it sounds great whether you, me or even the chopin himself plays it

and they're not gonna answer a young pianist criticism with "oh YKW? you're not pianist enough to understand why our pianos sounds the way they do so go practice and then you have the liberty to open your mouth and even then, only judge yourself not us"

MacMacMac

pianow: You're feeding our local troll. Please stop.

pianow

MacMacMac oh it's a troll? no wonder nobody gives a fawq 🙂 thanks

SouthPark

What mac is saying and you too, are that mac got schooled by Sofia, and both of you don't qualify to use Pteq. Keeping firmly in mind that the facts are mac was impressed by Pteq but didn't know it was Pteq at the time … Pteq samples that is. Hence he ate a serving of humble pie from Sofia.

It's not Pteq's fault that you can't take an already outstanding piano system and generate excellent music with it like we others can and do. It's your own fault. Keep practising and developing. And you may qualify later. May. You brought yourself into it not because of your post a few posts back, but because of your post above this one.

Bellyman

pianow a steinway is a steinway, it sounds great whether you, me or even the chopin himself plays it

I dunno… I've played on some pretty crappy sounding Steinways. (I used to work on pianos and have seen, heard, played on, fixed, tuned, or rebuilt quite a lot of them, the real thing.)

pianow

Bellyman

i was making a point, yes every brand have some bad examples as well but my point was : the sound of the piano is not related to the player skill level, it's about what the actual f the manufactory did, even that crappy steinway sound doesn't change when a beginner/professional plays it, but some people think if the pinoteq sounds like crap is because we are not talented enough to make it sound good lol

MacMacMac

pianow I don't respond to trolls. I just block.
But when you quote a troll I see the quote.

🙁

ambrozy

Acoustic pianos need to be carefully prepared (tuned, voiced, regulated) to sound good, and most of the time they are not. Steinways are more likely to sound good than other pianos because everyone expects them to, and so they are more likely to be well prepared, they aren't superior in design or build quality to other brands, quite the contrary in many cases.

This is completely off topic, but isn't that what pianoclack is all about?

Johnstaf

CyberGene P.S. I just listened to the VSL demos too and frankly speaking, it sounds nasal and metallic too. They are pretty similar. I’m wondering if it speaks high for Pianoteq, or low for VSL, or both. Or maybe the actual Bösendorfer is like that. Not my piano, either of them, Pianoteq or VSL🤮

Many of the Synchron demos sound like the music was typed in. The lack of tonal variety is odd.

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