Yamaha P-515 club

nhanzero · 2021-10-04T10:57:09+00:00

Just got here from PW, I do feel this place is much more elegant, and because I want to tell the world about my new beauty also!

vagfilm

Record midi on the pc and then render afterwards only the best "takes". Use Reaper or other free DAW to record midi and render, or take a look at AutoSaveMIDI to automatic recording and then a DAW to render. Search the forum for AutoSaveMIDI (small free app that I wrote and that may - or may not - be helpful).

DPPianoPhil

[deleted] Don’t confuse “Audio Loopback” (sending any audio coming into the DP back where it came from) and “Local Control” (whether or not a tone generated on the DP is sent out). Look for audio loopback in the P515 manual (page 85)

If you use Audacity, make sure you don’t send its monitoring audio to the DP while audio loopback is on, as this would create a feedback loop which can damage some hardware.

[deleted]

DPPianoPhil That was exactly what I was doing. I knew it had to be a simple solution. Thank you! Works like a charm

Drew-r

DPPianoPhil

Thank you from me too.

Ive read about “loopback” in the manual of several Yamaha DPs but have never been able to untangle that language. Now that you have, under what circumstances would anyone want the DP to send back the audio to device/computer etc?

If i understand the flow, keypresses originating on the Yami generate midi data that goes to the computer/device/app, in this case over the DP’s USB. The device does to this data whatever the user has programmed - such as record - and also sends the resultant audio over the same USB interface back to the DP to sound via the DP’s sound system. Why would somebody want to send the audio back to the computer/device that originated the audio to begin with?

[deleted]

So, I'm sending the midi data to a VST on my PC. From there, it returns the voice of the VST piano through my Yami and I now can play and listen to a new piano. Now, I want to record it. Sometimes I use a condenser mic and make an audio recording and sometimes I want a digital recording so I want to send that data back to another program on the PC that records that performance with that VST piano voice. I suppose there is some way to get it directly from the VST to the recorder on the PC through some process but I didn't want to spend a lot of $$ and this seemed the least expensive route.

CyberGene

If I connect my MacBook Pro to the N1X through a single USB cable and use the piano audio interface as audio output in Garritan CFX, I can hear Garritan CFX both in the headphones plugged into the piano and also record the digital audio back in the computer if I select the Yamaha audio interface. So, the interface is both audio in and out but will also loop back the incoming audio from the computer back to the computer. Wondering why that’s not the case with the P515.

DPPianoPhil

Drew-r Ive read about “loopback” in the manual of several Yamaha DPs but have never been able to untangle that language. Now that you have, under what circumstances would anyone want the DP to send back the audio to device/computer etc?

You know that playing any music on your DP generates MIDI data to the computer or tablet, but it also generates audio, at the same time, which can then be recorded by the computer or device (via audio over USB) with programs such as Audacity, or fed to a studio recording system via the line out leads.

Good, now overlay that music with audio fed from the computer, for example streaming from your music collection, or a properly prepared background track, or maybe your recorded singing voice of that piece, etc… You can play the piano over that audio and as long as “Audio Loopback” is on, send it all back (the background track as well as the music you did play on top of it), back to the computer for recording. You can have Elton John do the singing, while you do the piano playing, and have it all recorded for posterity. It probably won’t be as good as the original, but it’ll be more fun. 👍😜

In the VST use case, there is no ovelay, just the sound generated by the computer (from the initial MIDI only without any audio as “Local Control” is off), sent to the DP headphones and/or speakers and line outs, looped back to the computer, for that audio to be recorded there.

As I mentioned before, it is important to make sure that the audio sent back to the computer with “Audio Loopback” on, not be resent again to the DP (and thus back to the computer again, etc…), in an infinite loop, which can be damaging to the hardware. In particular, choose the monitoring output of Audacity to NOT be the piano speakers while recording, or disable monitoring altogether.

Drew-r

DPPianoPhil You know that playing any music on your DP generates MIDI data to the computer or tablet

✔️

DPPianoPhil but it also generates audio, at the same time

I was not aware of this. This may be because i know about DP/ USB audio mostly on paper, not from actual user experienc

DPPianoPhil overlay that music with audio fed from the computer, for example streaming from your music collection, or a properly prepared background track, or maybe your recorded singing voice of that piece, etc… You can play the piano over that audio and as long as “Audio Loopback” is on, send it all back (the background track as well as the music you did play on top of it), back to the computer for recording. You can have Elton John do the singing, while you do the piano playing, and have it all recorded for posterity. It probably won’t be as good as the original, but it’ll be more fun.

I did not know this either….. a veritable banquet for integrating individual sources of sound into a collective whole.

DPPianoPhil In the VST use case, there is no ovelay, just the sound generated by the computer (from the initial MIDI only without any audio as “Local Control” is off

✔️ I was generally aware of this part despite also being a VST student on paper.

DPPianoPhil it is important to make sure that the audio sent back to the computer with “Audio Loopback” on, not be resent again to the DP (and thus back to the computer again, etc…), in an infinite loop, which can be damaging to the hardware

✔️ I was generally aware that some models of Yamaha manuals make fuzzy mention of a parameter named “loopback” but since ive read users across various forums getting no clear answer upon asking about this, the tacit consensus there seems to be “ turn off loopback, does your whatever app work? If yes, good, call it a day. If no, turn on loopback, does your whatever app work? If yes, great, call it a day, if no, call Yamaha”

Ive seen what happens to traditional Ethernet lans which somebody accidentally connected in a loop.

I wonder how you know about these particular internal workings of USB audio. When i got out of tech support in 15’, USB uses/apps were still growing by leaps and bounds BUT still mostly for data-only apps …. but that was also a time when traditionally non-data information - like voice audio and screen video - were effectively morphing into data by way of converging “packetized” technologies like VoIP , Skype, Facetime, etc. Back in my day, there were often White Papers distributed for those so inclined to read about emerging technologies “ self study” as it were. Being out of tech close to 7 years now, i do not know if white papers are even a thing anymore, especially since we’ve now been sinking further into an era where any such helpful information “becoming informed” is witheld rather than widely promulgated. If you have a source or resource good for reading about basic internals of USB audio, i would like to read about that. If not, nonetheless Thank You for the foregoing very helpful tips ! 🙂

PS. I just noticed, after the fact, more useful reasons to have paper. I do not want you to think i’m painting you as anti-paper’ers nor paper-hesitant, but i’d like to ask you potential book-burners to reconsider your stance on paper. To whit: back in the day, mom or dad might say “what, do you think money grows on trees?” Of course back then i was too naive to know …. that money comes from special paper made from wood from trees, which the Fed applies some special green ink along with some bizarre, arcane artwork, with a pittance in out of pocket expense to produce …. which it then sells this money - by way of congress - to taxpayers, at a significant markup ….. currently somewhere around 30 trillion in this paper hole …. and still counting! 💸💶💵🙃

DPPianoPhil

Drew-r I wonder how you know about these particular internal workings of USB audio

No special knowledge, just thinking about it logically in terms of host vs device, source vs sink of data and some actual experimentation.

Namely, I have recorded my playing the DP with Audacity on my Mac, and separately overlayed music I like (eg Adele and Elton John) with some rough accompaniment on the piano by me, thanks to the Yamaha provided chord charts (in Smart Pianist), not that I felt the need to record that, so I haven't tried it yet, but it should work.

Similarly with VSTs, I haven't tried any of them (and I don't even have a DAW) but thinking about how they work with MIDI and Audio and how could recording one's playing a VST work, straight from the source, ie. at the computer, or after a round-trip through the piano.

There are two separate controls knobs which determine which data goes from the piano to the host, "Local Control" for locally played tones, and "Audio Loopback" for remotely played tones (always sent to the speakers or headphones, I believe), to send them back to where they came from. Those two knobs are independent of each other. When you have both of them on (which I think is the default), you can play over some piped in music and send it all back to the host. When playing VSTs, turn Local Control off, so you don't hear the same tones produced locally and remotely by the host, with Audio Loopback on or off depending on wether you want that back on the host or not.

I have an engineering background (a bit of hardware in my very young days, and then mostly software), like a lot of us on this forum, and perhaps that explains it, I don't know. But it's not really rocket surgery. I am much more impressed with @CyberGene, @RIP or @JayKominek forays into making their own hybrid pianos! 🙂

bawb

Topic: Alternative to Yamaha's P515's Triple Pedal Integrated with Stand - Obligatory?

Sorry, I couldn't find a forum function to post a new topic in this P515 dedicated subforum.

Is there a viable alternative to the P515s triple pedal as only available as an integrated component with its piano stand? Any third-party offering? I'm seriously considering buying this instrument, but my preference is to set it up on my computer desk so it's an easy transition to use as a midi controller. In this configuration, the stand is definitely an obstruction.

Thanks for any comments, suggestions.

bawb

Ralphiano

Hi, bawb. And, welcome to the forum.

If I was in your position, I would just modify the original pedal so that it mounts to the desk you plan to rest the piano on.

I don't remember exactly, but I think at least one of Kawai or Yamaha sells the pedal unit with the attachment wings separately from the combined stand&pedals unit. Maybe around $150 or so.

Good luck with whatever you come up with.

DPPianoPhil

The LP-1 triple pedal unit comes with detachable bars that normally get tied to the stand, but if you don’t use them and find another way to secure the pedals to the floor, it’s probably your best option.

I’ve seen people design a piece of wood around pedals to prevent them from skipping on the floor, so maybe that’s something to look into, or maybe double sided tape, if your floor is not carpeted?

bawb

Thanks to both DPPianoPhil and Ralphiano for these tips on options for the LP-1 triple pedal on the P-515. You've given me a couple routes to explore, one to see just how modular/detachable those "wings" , whether the modifications can be relatively easy, neat, and clean, and two, a customized "floorboard" to keep the pedal unit from wandering. Right now, on my non-carpeted floor, I'm using an old towel to slow down the sliding of the single dampener pedal I'm using with my midi controller. It ain't pretty, and it still tends to move around somewhat.

This question of the P-515's integrated triple pedal certainly isn't a deal-breaker for me, but it has given me pause to think and wonder about it.

So, I'm grateful for the suggestions!

bawb

New inductee to the P-515 Club….me.

After weeks of deliberating, running hither and yon, burying myself in forum threads, YouTube videos, online reviews, and all the rest of that sort of research trek, I finally made up my mind and pulled the trigger on new Yamaha P-515. A week to 10 days wait. I could've had a floor demo, but the savings was meagre and I look forward to the unboxing of a pristine product.

As a late elementary/early intermediate level player, I put quite a bit of stock in the forum contributions of other P-515 owners here at Piano Clack. The waves of positive vibes inspire confidence.

I refused to obsess over the whole "heavy action" melodrama. I put my decades of experience with classical guitar into an analogy-mode. That is, I see a parallel between keyboard players, especially inexperienced ones, getting jittery about P-515's action and inexperienced guitarists getting anxious about the classical guitar's "fat neck", "wide nut" and "wide string spacing" and wide radius fingerboard. Guess wha? You will adapt! You will learn comfort. You'll gather familiarity with time, confidence with practice and patience. And finally, you will find joy! There is no such thing as classical guitar that feels like a Fender Stratocaster! Nope, ain't happening.

And I did fiddle and fool with P-515 demo in the store, and sheesh, right away it felt so solid, sure-footed, and if I dare use the word, "clear" to describe key strokes. I wondered what all the fuss is about.

The other plus for me is the online community of owners is such an impressive technical resource especially for someone like me who'll likely have plenty of questions forthcoming!

I traded in my Arturia KeyLab 61 mkII midi controller and given it was in "like new" condition, I got a surprisingly awesome trade-in allowance. With that I opted to add the P-515's integrated 3-pedal/stand option to the package. I kinda half-expect I'll want another midi unit, a liitle one, with a few pads, encoders, faders, pitch/mod bend. I've got quite a few VSTs, though not many in piano category.

Looking forward to a few thousand hours of practice!

[deleted]

Getting back to the earlier discussion on recording and loopback - I started using Reaper. It allows my VSL piano to act as a plug-in so no need to run both separately and no need for audio loopback to be on. Reaper records my performance directly

bawb

Question re P-515 Serial Numbrs

The stickers for the P-515 digital piano, the LP-1 pedal unit, and the L-515 stand assembly each have three numbers. Model number is self-evident, but there are two longer numbers, either of which could be easily misconstrued as the serial number…or not.

I'm assuming for the moment that the number closest to the bottom of the sticker is the item's serial number. So what's the other long number?

Here's a photo of LP-1 serial/model number sticker. The piano's and the pedal unit's have the same format.

I'd like to record these numbers correctly and get the registration correct without guessing.

Thanks for any help with this question.

bawb in PEI

MacMacMac

In the photo I see a serial number starting with YCB. Is that what you need?

But keep in mind that registering your item just signs you up for spam … er … marketing solicitations. Nothing more.

For warranty purposes hold onto your sales receipt. You’ll need it for a warranty claim.

Registration is irrelevant.

bawb

Thanks MacMacMac

Just because of the letters heading up the number, I assumed that is the serial number, but what the heck is the long sequence of numbers in the middle of the sticker. The graphic depiction of the serial number stickers both online and in the manual do NOT show the presence of this other long sequence of numbers in their illustrations.

For warranty purposes, a small niggling concern is that while my invoice was generated on one date, I had to wait three weeks for notification that my order was complete, ready for pickup. It doesn't seem right that my warranty period would commence three weeks before I even received the instrument. I guess I could get a signature from the store manager endorsing a note of the date of actual pickup….or maybe a new bill.

[deleted]

It might be a part number - LP-1B is the part name and the 889… number is the part number

bawb

Thanks [deleted] , part number makes sense. It's too bad that Yamaha does not match up their guidebook illustrations with what actually appears to the customer. It's an invitation to error without any explicit differentiation between the two longer sequences of numbers.

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