Fraudulent entity cloned Pianoteq, serving the clones up as sampled sfz instruments, with a mesmerizing, and entirely fake, backstory about home-built, very advanced robotic measurement-equipment, used on very expensive piano's in homes of very wealthy Italians. All available for free.
Lots of people believed the story (yours truly included).
Gamma1734 can someone show some love and please give a quick recap about all of this
A user called Sofia_MZ registered on PW, here (and some other piano-related forums) and said she was a 22 year old psychology student from Italy who started sampling various acoustic pianos from people's homes across the entire country with the intent to make a present for her father. She claimed she was an amateur in audio recording, also how a friend of hers made a robotic arm that would facilitate the sampling process. All of these sampled pianos were free to download and in the SFZ (Sforzando) format, no re-pedaling, half-pedaling, etc. Apparently some people were astonished at the quality of the samples (no noise, etc.) and the fact that a 22 year old girl with no prior experience in sampling pianos could produce so many different sampled instruments. There were new registrations on this forum that said they registered to express how much they like the pianos. Not many of the old members here tested the pianos. I, for one, wouldn't try a sampled piano with no re-pedaling and no half-pedaling even at gunpoint đ Our dear @David B tested the Fazioli and expressed rather high dissatisfaction. Etc., etc.
Then, someone on this forum suggested it was all a hoax and it was just Pianoteq being sampled. And the so called "Sofia" admitted it.
The interpretations are varying, from how she managed to prove people can't distinguish Pianoteq from real pianos, to how that was a failed experiment, since it prematurely ended by being debunked and how she intentionally presented the fake story about the 22 year old girl to earn easy wins for being an amateur, rather than for the actual quality of the sound.
CyberGene she intentionally presented the fake story about the 22 year old girl to earn easy wins for being an amateur, rather than with the actual quality of the sound.
I also propose that being âSofia,â a 22-year-old Italian girl, and not just being an amateur, had a lot to do with the approval rate, but of course, Iâm just being sexist!
I wonder, had it been Roberto, a hairy 40-year-old from Florida, would âheâ have gotten so much âloveâ, but then again, Iâm being sexist!
Keep in mind that some over at PW all-but-proposed to Sofia, âwould you marry me?â, and thatâs what was said publicly, for Sofia hinted at more spicy language behind closed doors; however, being the shy girl she is, she would keep these Implied conversations in confidence.đ€«
Pete14 Keep in mind that some over at PW all-but-proposed to Sofia, âwould you marry me?â, and thatâs what was said publicly, for Sofia hinted at more spicy language behind closed doors; however, being the shy girl she is, she would keep these Implied conversations in confidence.đ€«
@Pete: I guess I'm the TL;DR type. I didn't know that things had become so "juicy".
CyberGene Thanks so much! All of that I kind of read about, but I just wanted to know what the facts are , and if there were open accusations.
Indeed I also downloaded one instrument, even searched for a SFX player only for that, etc, and I was very pleased with the sound. Then I noticed, that my Noire plugin was actually giving the sound. When I changed it to the library, I immediately came to the conclusion, that it is unusable for me. The whole story is surely interesting, but I hope no one was hurt in any way with this! Thanks again for the recap.
Best
Gamma
As for the notion that this fraud was an attempt to attract attention from Cyber Gene ...
Note that these piano libraries were uploaded to Piano World, which CG seldom frequents anymore.
And also to a Linux music forum, which CG has never mentioned so I assume he doesn't go there.
If the fraud was some sort of bait, it was poorly cast.
My conclusion: It wasn't bait at all.
The only thing that annoys me is that "Sofia" seems to have an inflated notion of him/herself in that he/she thinks that he/she pulled the wool over everyone's eyes, and that everyone who dislikes Pianoteq liked his/her piano. That's simply not true. Some people didn't comment because they didn't think these libraries were worth the bother. There are countless piano libraries available. I think four or five of them are worth bothering about.
It caught taushi out like a rag doll though, and many others, including triple M. It's pretty much damage control, or save face control. But of course it's too late for that, which is why this incident is considered as major - a major embarrassment that is for some (or many). For myself, I'm ok, as I don't use VST or P-teq yet. I'm thoroughly enjoying the P-515 and P-525.
I'm not on sofia's side though. I don't condone pranking anybody. But that experiment from 'lucy' was obviously unexpected. Probably a bit of a win for pteq. But this also goes back to what I had been saying for a couple of years as well, where I mentioned that in the future, if pteq is able to produce their finest physical/acoustic model (various layers, various conditions), and then hand over pteq generated samples for the sampling and resonance gang/crew to do their magic on/with, then the results could be spectacular. And looks like lucy demonstrated some of that idea. And no - I'm not 'lucy'. I know how to 'code' though. But then again, heaps of people know how to 'code' these days in various languages.
@CyberGene I wonder if you can get some info by tracing the IP from "Sofia"⊠I tell this because I was banned on some forum (they didn't take well a joke đ!) and my IP prevented me to access or re-register (so I used a VPN service đŹ)
Maybe "she" was also hidden that wayâŠ. But if not, I guess you can get some info to trace him.
Jose EB5AGV yes, I see the IP but frankly I don't care đ As I said, the "Sofia" guy(s) have not stepped over any forum rule.
And, as @Johnstaf said, it's hilarious how they are trying to present it as a successful hoax, whereas it's apparently failed because it was uncovered prematurely đ
CyberGene yes, I see the IP but frankly I don't care đ As I said, the "Sofia" guy(s) have not stepped over any forum rule.
OK, my aim was to debunk that some people from our select group đ were involved, as some other people says / jokes about. All in all, it was a fun ride IMO. The đis in the details! (and in the fake pianos it seems!)
Please, do allow me to humbly disagree!
As far as forum âhoaxesâ go, this one went on for quite some time, and it was not till someone âround here suggested there was something fishy about the whole thing that some suspicion arose, but even then we gave Sofia the benefit of the doubt, and she decided to come clean.
The nerds at PW didnât have a clue about the âhoaxâ till someone directed them here!
P.S.
Notice how I use quotation marks for âhoaxâ, for I consider this more of an experiment.
And Iâm no longer using quotations for Sofia, for âheâ will forever be Sofia, the hot 22-year-old Italian student who made many fall in love with her, and some admit -by extension- that they do indeed love the king: Pianoteq!
It seems Pete14 is in love! đ đ đ đ đ đ đ đ đ đ đ
SouthPark It caught taushi out like a rag doll thoughâŠ.
Isnât this the same guy who claimed that my harmonic analysis on âThe Moonlightâ was no more than a simple one, yet when I confronted him about showing us his analysis, this is what he cooked up:
âThe Moonlight (1st Mov.) is like a Mephistophelean stormâŠ..â he also used some tacky -Russian Novel- rhetoric to further show his sophistication.
Just recently, I noticed, he called Bach âno more than the result of hyped-up publicityâ, and that his harmony is âstraightforward,â and no longer relevant; wowâŠ..just wow!
Bachâs music is indeed the most complex, intricate, difficult yet also beautiful ever written, and many of the âbestâ composers have openly admitted so, and yes, that includes Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin, etcâŠ
And as far as self-promotion goes, Bach was the least interested in it, and even for something as majestic as âThe Goldbergs,â he simply saw these as a few variations for the bumpy road ahead for âkeyboardâ enthusiastsâŠ..what?
Conversely, people like Mozart started creating the myth(s) from a very early age, âhe came out the womb playing the piano, composed his first tune by five, and never-ever did he make a correction,â for you see, the music arrived fully composed directly from the gods (his true progenitors).
Then thereâs Beethoven with all his drama, âscrew you, Napoleon,â and Chopin with the nuns at a convent; whence he came in empty-handed, yet left (the convent, stupid) with âThe Preludes,â you know, a little gift from God, himself!
I could keep on going, but then again Iâm no expert; Iâm nothing but King Pete XIV, a humble descendant of Pete âThe Great,â yet that guy over at PW, heâs a sophisticated scholar the likes of which weâve never seen before!
Pete14 wow, who's that Taushi guy? Hopefully he didn't try to correct "mistakes" in Bach đ
CyberGene wow, who's that Taushi guy? Hopefully he didn't try to correct "mistakes" in Bach
Heâs quite the scholarly scholar, and never did I see him lose an argument; not even when he was dead-wrong!
Heâs persuasive, Iâll give him that, and his vocabulary seems quite robust; heck, I never saw anyone write a dissenting opinion on the basis of nothing, yet packed with so much (words)!đ
Pete14 Isnât this the same guy who claimed that my harmonic analysis on âThe Moonlightâ was no more than a simple one, yet when I confronted him about showing us his analysis, this is what he cooked up:
That's the one Pete. The same guy. The one that tries to overwhelm the 'opposition' by writing essays - or even sometimes -- books, to the point where his 'opposition' stages right after probably not having the time of day (or night) to read the essay or book.
Sophisticated scholar he is. And there was a time when I had to bring him back down to 'earth' for his urge to write essays/books about acoustic pianos are the 'best' or holy grail, and that hybrids were the next 'best' thing, and the rest (the bottom of the 'barrel' stuff) --- have their uses but are 'inferior' (or along that sort of lines) in terms of producing 'real' piano music. I generally don't use the word 'troll'. But that's the way that I saw it, which was the reason why I would put in my five dollars and fifteen cents worth, for purposes of letting him know that the books won't go unanswered.
Pete14 Just recently, I noticed, he called Bach âno more than the result of hyped-up publicityâ, and that his harmony is âstraightforward,â and no longer relevant; wowâŠ..just wow!
ahahaha .... I detect jealousy here. As in, he is jealous of Bach's achievements, and Bach's brilliance, and feels a need to focus on something like this in order to satisfy the book writing (or defense/attack lawyer writing) urge.
Bach, Beet, Cho, Mo, Tchai etc are all well-known brilliant people. Hyped up publicity ..... his foot it is. His foot.
SouthPark there was a time when I had to bring him back down to 'earth' ...
Oh, the irony! đ
Triple m, that stung you a bit when I mentioned rag doll, and how you now love pianoteq and got taken for a beneficial ride.
I suppose the greatest indication of having a lasting impact on people is that they discuss you when you arenât even present and, apparently, keep tabs on you, even after having been banned from the space you shared. Whether thatâs healthy or not, I canât say.
But, speak of the devil and he shall appear.
Especially when heâs been a lurker for some time!
_
I was certainly fooled and had very positive things to say about these âinstrumentsâ.
But as jdg78 pointed out, that was in the context of these being amateur DIY laptop microphone samples of old imperfect vintage instruments. I never said they were better than the best sampled instruments like Garritan, VSL or VI Labs. I also gave advice on how to make them better if they really wanted to compete with those.
And, for most of us, that aligns with how weâve always felt about Pianoteq. I, for one, have never said that Pianoteq was an unplayable mess or that it doesnât sound reminiscent of the instruments itâs emulating. All Iâve ever said was that it doesnât sound totally authentic, and therefore is of no use to those of us who are hyper-sensitive about authenticity. And thatâs still true. If, in order to get us to say good things about it, you have to make up a story that itâs laptop recordings of old and worn vintage instruments with limited layers and shortened sustainâŠif you have to create a bunch of concessions just to make it believableâŠhave you really contradicted that opinion?
Now I will say my favorite was the âFazioliâ. In fact, I said the Fazioli âSofiaâ sampled was better than the very bland and undynamic Fazioli VSL sampledâŠand I maintain that. Turns out, though, it wasnât actually a Fazioli at all. Iâve heard people say Pianoteq is better at emulating something other than the big brands. Theyâre right!
But was I fooled, absolutely! Is it an embarrassment to admit that? No. Who puts that much stock into what people on a message board think about you?
And more to the point, if this actually was some means to get back at people for disliking PianoteqâŠthe person or persons may want to sit with that, and try to discover why thatâs so important to them, and why they would go to such great lengths forâŠthis. Whatâs it all about, Alfie?
_
Also, a brief correction: I never said Bach was âno more than the result of hyped-up publicityâ. Bach is one of the greatest composers of all time, bar none, full stop.
What I *did*, however, say was that the cult of BachâŠthe idea that he is the over-god of all composers, the greatest composer of all time, the most harmonically advanced composer, upon whose back every single thing after him stands, that every single composer after him cannot touch the hem of his garmentâŠis hyped-up publicity; that perception came from the efforts of his descendants, a nationalist push, and the pedagogical influence he had on the composers after him. And the research & data supports that. And I said that in response to people making statements about Bach that were identical to the cultish statements I used as an example.
You certainly wonât see me uploading audio in every thread proclaiming Bachâs masterpieces were imperfect and that Iâve improved upon it. Or holding grudges about musical disagreements months later and keeping track of those who disagree about my favorite composers.
_
Also, Cybergene I do not believe you were the focus of this. As others pointed out, this was posted on one Linux musician website first, which I suspect was how they tested whether their âinstrumentsâ would work. Then they headed straight to PW. Had they been aiming for you, I suspect theyâdâve come straight here.
_
Do I believe the story after the revelation. Absolutely not. The new claimed identity doesnât even track. Nor am I entirely sure I believe that getting people to compliment Pianoteq was their goal, because why on Earth would anybody care this much about whether people like Pianoteq or not? Why focus on Pianoworld, but not the many other VI sites?
Iâm not entirely sure this wasnât an attempt to get money by selling this as an amateur product. They had a donations page, where several people donated money. And while it wasnât much, none of that money has been refunded yet based on the page. The person says people can request their money back, but thatâs not true. Having used Buy Me A Coffee for projects, the receiver has to refund the money and it shows on the page. The fact that they kept all those donations and havenât refunded people doesnât bode well for what their intentions really were.
_
As for who I think it isâŠif this was just some weird, obsessive attempt to get back at those who have a different opinion about a software none of us have stock inâŠthen Iâd suspect it may well be the people we see with odd vendettas obsessively guffawing about it. Could be the ones here or on PW. Some have demonstrated the technical knowledge to have pulled this off. But it seems very personal to that space.
If it was an attempt to make money, who knows.
_
And howâs that for an essay. đ