My pianos *DEBUNKED*

QuasiUnaFantasia there has been a speculation that Pianoteq is not about modeling the piano as an object that produces sound but rather a clever sound compression which works with samples as an input and will then analyze the partials, their amplitude curves with the time, etc., and then when the sound is generated, sine waves will be summed and their amplitudes will be controlled by following the analyzed curves. That's based on the only patent that Modartt have published many years ago. They have recently stated that it's old and they are doing better modeling, however they have never uncovered what that means.

I think many people get confused over what modeling actually is. They imagine that the computer holds a virtual piano model in memory and the mechanical system is modeled with its geometry, materials, moving parts and ultimately we have a virtual hammer striking virtual strings that produce audio. That's called finite analysis and it's been stated that it's so difficult to do it in real time that (if I remember correctly) to produce 1 second of audio from such a model would require 24 hours of intense computation by a very powerful computer. With that in mind, I think the term "modeling" is used pretty vaguely nowadays and in the case of Pianoteq most certainly means (IMO) that they model input audio samples rather than the actual piano object as a mechanical system. Or, in other words, it's more a synthesizer with parameters that allow it to behave like a piano better than a conventional sampler would do. But it's definitely not a physical model the way most people imagine it.

CyberGene I don't think they have gone that route (which is what I would have done, and probably will do). I think they have to simulate the hammer hitting the string, because they have explicit parameters for specifying that part of the process. These parameters would be meaningless if they simply started with a seed waveform.

QuasiUnaFantasia I think they have to simulate the hammer hitting the string, because they have explicit parameters for specifying that part of the process.

That doesn't mean they don't have a glorified sampler underneath. Maybe those parameters are programmed to affect the partial summing, so that it emulates different hammer hardness, etc. As a very simple example, closing the lid is usually just rolling off the high frequencies. Many digital pianos from 20 years ago have that in their parameters and they don't model a lid 😉 Or should we say they model a lid? 🤔 It's just an EQ. Same with those modeling parameters that seem like controlling a finite model underneath. But I highly doubt if that's actually the case.

David B We learn how to overcome (with Divine power) the destructive characteristics of our sinful nature so that the body is slave to the mind and not the mind to the body. The same diligence must be applied to overcoming the corrupting influence of Pianoteq.

The devil is among us, and he is called Satan.
And he is called Lucifer.
And he is called Beelzebub.
And he is called Sofia. 🙂

CyberGene Yes! I've always experienced the same phenomenon with Pianoteq. There's a new version and I am usually a hopeless optimist (sure, I want to believe that modeling is better than sampling because the theory says it should be) and I start playing it and for a few minutes I think wow, that's actually not bad at all, much better than before. And then the fatigue kicks in mightily and irreversibly. You said it well, once heard it cannot be unheard 😕

All of this is exactly as it goes for me, with every next release (demo version).

Largos Many software have licenses which disallow many thing.

This is enforced by the law which forbids non approved copies. And running a program like Pianoteq involves a copy. Then you mustn’t run Pianoteq without complying to the license. If you run Pianoteq in a unwanted way, it is a counterfeit.

Copying the result is not copying a copyrighted artwork (the sound is not provided directly by Modartt), but may be considered as concealment since the result comes from a forbidden task.

Wow, y’all went from loving Sofia to calling her the Devil overnight, and all because she confirmed that you’re all closeted Pianoteq fans!

Come out the closet:

https://youtu.be/28JN3N-C0lc?si=9uEJIYF04qlTGmQK

We’re not in any closet. Sofia is!

“She” came out, fooled us all, and went back in. 😉

MacMacMac We’re not in any closet. Sofia is!

“She” came out, fooled us all, and went back in. 😉

She is not a She 😆

Hi,

Just a few clarifications.

I removed the Sourceforge files and took down the website voluntarily. Nobody asked or forced me to do so. Hoax notwithstanding, the 2.1 release was getting downloaded by the thousands.

I’m indeed 16, and did this alone. There are no ulterior motives or big conspiracy behind my actions, except the initial curiosity about what piano enthusiasts would say, and the subsequent fun as the mavens started to preach (which apparently they keep doing, no lesson learned there). Ego being what it is, I understand the denial.

Also, people seemed so happy, and I was reluctant to bust the bubble.

I didn’t create fake accounts or post under pretenses to stir approval. I didn’t need to. In fact, Sofia received dozens of emails every single day. She was proposed (partnerships), offered jobs, asked for expert consulting, showered with praise, the whole nine yards. I thought… is this what being Billie Eilish feels like?

I might be young, but I’m not naive nor immature. My intentions were never to belittle anyone or anything. I won’t disclose any information that might embarrass anyone who confided in Sofia privately.

I’m also not a venal person. Profit was never my goal. I’m a detail-oriented person, and the Buy Me Coffee bit was meant to add a touch of realism. The few donations were never even claimed and can be returned.

I’m not a psychology student, but certainly a keen observer of human behavior. And I was a bit disappointed by the VST community as a whole. Here were guys who wouldn’t think twice about blowing hundreds of dollars on expensive VI, but only a handful bothered to spare a few bucks to support a selfless and gifted amateur. My heart went out to the real samplists.

To end this last post on a happier note, the girl I modeled (no pun intended) Sofia after is indeed brilliant, and could probably pull off something like this for real. Have hope in the new generations.

Sofia_MZ And I was a bit disappointed by the VST community as a whole. Here were guys who wouldn’t think twice about blowing hundreds of dollars on expensive VI, but only a handful bothered to spare a few bucks to support a selfless and gifted amateur. My heart went out to the real samplists.

LOL... Real sample developers doing this for a living charge good money for their products, and I'm happy to pay them to support their livelihood.

New life lesson: if you voluntarily give away a product for free, don't be surprised if people take you up on it.

🤣

Sofia_MZ

Thank you for sharing these aspects of the adventure.

Cheers and happy projects,

HZ

Cringe.

Sofia_MZ subsequent fun as the mavens started to preach (which apparently they keep doing, no lesson learned there). Ego being what it is, I understand the denial

Are there any Pianoteq critics on this forum who praised your pianos? I’ve seen some influx of new registrations on PianoClack that apparently liked your pianos (might as well have been part of your experiment) but I haven’t seen any “mavens” doing it, and by that I mean people who are old members and who are well known, and outspoken PT critics.

Apparently you’re not 16 year old. Because kids nowadays are not interested in pianos but even if they are, they simply lack the deep context-driven buildup of the Pianoteq love/hate attitude, which is a digital-piano-forum phenomenon and can only come through years of slowly soaking into it. Besides, cross-targeting PW and this forum just out of nowhere and referring to people as though we’re one and same forum shows deep contextual knowledge and careful planning. Apparently you’re one of those PT fanatics who are disgruntled with the fact there are people who don’t share your zealotry and decided to carefully craft some elaborate hoax/joke. Enough with the BS, please 😉 16 year old, my ass. Psychology, my ass. If this was a genuine psychology experiment, it wouldn’t try to score easy points pro-PT by presenting the story about the amateur 22 year old Italian girl. You just wanted to make sure people wouldn’t be rude towards an innocent “girl” even if they heard the PT BS. So, you just desperately needed to prove a point. I wonder now why you didn’t also use some compassion-weapon such as presenting “her” as disabled or something.

Sorry about your failed hoax. You may try to present it as a success as much as you like but I don’t see it this way. I see a desperation.

Sofia_MZ I won’t disclose any information that might embarrass anyone who confided in Sofia privately.

OMG, Sofia, what did these pervs ask you to do?

Tell me, did they ask to sample your behind whilst in a G-string?

I wonder, were they curious about “how many layers” lay under that short skirt of yours?

Or did they simply want a private sampling session (stilettos not required)?

This just keeps getting better…….🤣

P.S.

People, I’m just having fun here, so take no offense, and the truth is that I did wonder about Sofia sampling a Steinway in nothing but a G-string, and tall stilettos👠; we’re all a little messed up!😉

Pete14 OMG, Sofia, what did these pervs ask you to do?

The whole gender angle in this hoax is lost on me. I never thought twice about this person being presented as a girl and not a guy. I simply wanted to try the Fazioli because people were saying it was so good. Frankly, it stunk compared to VSL's F308. The facade of a female didn't make it stink any more or less. Out of politeness to what I thought was a genuine labor of sampling love I didn't use the word stink in my description. I would have upheld the same level of courtesy male or female.

God Bless,
David

BY the thousands, I doubt it:

I also don't think this is true because my pianos on PIanobook have taken 2 years to reach 5-6k downloads, and PIanobook is/was much much more high profile than these forums.

But I agree about how tips don't work well. Some of the most generous tips I have gotten are from people on this forum actually.

dore_m I also don't think this is true because my pianos on PIanobook have taken 2 years to reach 5-6k downloads….

Yes, but you’re a guy, so I suggest you change your name to something like Sophie (from France).

I assure you that your numbers will go over the roof if only you flirt a little, in French of course!

before you get all PC on me, go ahead, give it a try, “Sophie,” and sooner than later it’ll be clear that Sophie’s choice (for samples) will crush those of boring, old Pedro (he’s from Mexico)🇲🇽

“Incredible and outstanding effort! I just listened to the mp3s, and they sound fantastic. I haven't had the chance to thoroughly explore all of your sample sets, but I must say, the quality of your work is truly remarkable!” Quote from a horny PW nerd!

Don’t you see, they’re infatuated with Sofia!

This particular nerd hasn’t even “explore(d) all of your samples,” yet he’s gushing all over Sofia!

Go ahead, Sophie, give it a try, and soon your numbers will go over the roof!

Pete14 he’s from Mexico

On a stick!