Headphones and tinnitus

Picotin

It has been a while since I'm suffering from tinnitus that unfortunately is getting worse recently.

Today I had to stop my morning practice three times since the whistle in the ears was almost as loud as the piano sound.

I basically use headphones only and I'm starting guessing that that it's part of the problem.

Have you ever experienced such annoyances?

Do you spend more time playing with headphones or monitors?

Do you ever experience ear fatigue during your practicing?

I would like to hear your experiences as I'm really struggling to find a way out.

Cheers

CyberGene

I used to have some ringing in my ears when using my ES7 with headphones. At that time I may have had some slight tinnitus but it was all worsened by the bright and overly dynamic nature of the Kawai sound from that generation (I think their main piano back then was only one, the EX? A very bright and metallic sound). It all stopped when I started using Garritan CFX and changed to dark headphones (HD650).

Picotin

CyberGene

That's interesting, thank you for sharing it.

I own a ES8 and used to love the standard SK sound. Now, I can't stand it as it resound really weird in my ears and blent with a kind of whistle. I suppose the noise doesn't come out of the piano though.

I then switched to EX which indeed sounds more crisp and metallic in a way. It looks like it didn't help much anyway.

CyberGene It all stopped when I started using Garritan CFX and changed to dark headphones (HD650).

Maybe I should follow your example and give it a try.

Do you have to use an amplifier with the HD650? I reckon it's at 300ohms impendence.

vagfilm

Tinnitus is usually triggered or worsened by a very narrow range of frequencies. It is paramount that you radically decrease your exposure to those frequencies (you then may try to retrain your ears, but speak about that with your otorhino doctor and/or audiologist).

See if you can identify that range, and you need to do the work yourself: don't expect the doctors to have that kind of trouble… You can have a good starting point by identifying the frequency of your tinnitus ringing. Hum that frequency and see what note that is on the piano. The tinnitus culprit is probably in the neighborhood…

Start with today's piece. Use the headphones since you were using them when you triggered today. Write down the range that you played. Then go in groups of 3-5 sequential notes, and play them repeatedly for a few minutes. Make intervals of up to 1 hour to rest your inner ear before trying the next group of notes. Slowly and patiently. This will take you a few days. You may be able to find that there are only a few notes that induce tinnitus. Check their frequency and their harmonics, and reduce that in the equalization. And if successful, then drop your headphones and play with speakers at low volume (better that than nothing, right?).

Picotin

vagfilm

Thanks for your advice.

I also reckon that there are some frequencies that bothers me more than others. I haven't tried yet to identify them methodically as you suggest, but I will try.

Volume doesn't seems to be the issue. I'm usually halfway the slider and experimented already different levels.

I went to the otolaryngologist twice already which beside a mild impairment on the right side, didn't notice any pathology. According to him, long hours with the headphones doesn't matter. I will pass a magnetic resonance imaging scan soon for further investigation anyway.

I think I will get good monitors too but most of the time I have to stick with headphones anyway I'm afraid.

CyberGene

Picotin Do you have to use an amplifier with the HD650? I reckon it's at 300ohms impendence.

Depends on the computer. With one of my macs it was just ok on max volume. With the other I had to use Apogee Groove.

Picotin

CyberGene Depends on the computer. With one of my macs it was just ok on max volume. With the other I had to use Apogee Groove

No external audio card? Wow, your hardware must be hi specs!

MacMacMac

@Picotin: The days of sh&@ audio cards ended some time ago. Yes, the pro and semi-pro audio interfaces will outperform what's in a PC, but the latter are more than good enough for most people.

CG has a Mac. Those have always given good latency performance. But I think that was more related to the OS, not so much to the audio interface.

Picotin

MacMacMac

I guess you're right.

On the other hand, my PCs are not the most recent and consumer grade…

spanishbuddha

I too have tinnitus and believe it was caused by the use of headphones when I started out learning piano. Two or three times a day, every day, for several years, not good IMHO. I no longer (need to) use headphones, and now wear musicians type earplugs when practising; if I don't my ears will remind me about it afterwards.

I can't offer any remedies, but eventually your brain gets used to a level of background ringing and you become unaware unless you consciously listen for it. Some other things set it off louder, headache, stress, some meds or extra caffeine, tiredness, loud noise of course, etc

I'm not sure what to suggest for all the headphone players other than keep the volume low; think of it as a recording challenge - you need to keep those peaks below a certain level; practice is just that, save the louder times for a performance even if it is to yourself?

Picotin

spanishbuddha I no longer (need to) use headphones, and now wear musicians type earplugs when practising; if I don't my ears will remind me about it afterwards.

I've the Sennheiser IE 40 PRO. I found them good for the mobile but not the best for the piano.

Most likely they aren't professional grade as the ones you use.

spanishbuddha I'm not sure what to suggest for all the headphone players other than keep the volume low; think of it as a recording challenge - you need to keep those peaks below a certain level; practice is just that

I agree with you for not self-inflicting unnecessary loud levels on our poor ears. At the same time I believe that we should aim at the same level of an acoustic.

I guess that it would help ourselves getting used to the same experience and train our fingers strength accordingly

vagfilm

Functional MRI coupled with auditory stimulus or regular anatomical MRI (I suppose the second… Don't know if the first is done on regular clinical practice or only for research purposes…

Try to pinpoint the offending frequencies (beware of the harmonics from other keys that end up on the same frequencies as the primary note). And check if extensive playing outside of those frequencies/notes do not induce tinnitus. If not, you have a good chance of cutting those frequencies through severe EQ.

Picotin

vagfilm Functional MRI coupled with auditory stimulus or regular anatomical MRI (I suppose the second… Don't know if the first is done on regular clinical practice or only for research purposes…

On yes, the standard MRI with contrast fluid. I believe they are looking at the VII nerve?

I understand the brain is kind of your domain, isn't?

vagfilm check if extensive playing outside of those frequencies/notes do not induce tinnitus. If not, you have a good chance of cutting those frequencies through severe EQ.

It looks like I have a dip around 4KHz on the right ear. Beside that I'm keen to follow your suggestion for looking for a possible offending frequency.

I even consider that the headphones was introducing some weird resonance. I'm struggling to make sense of the awkward feeling I now perceive with the SK sound that I used to love.

Maybe is everything just in my head.. Either imaginatively or worst pathologically! 😉

Picotin

EB5AGV I have found out that headphones generate a temporary tinnitus lots earlier than using monitors…

I understand that you too have experienced this annoying issue. Thank you for sharing it.. I feel less alone 😥

Beside the interesting analysis that vagfilm has suggested, I'm keen to test a good VST and quality monitor when possible.

I'm not sure that would solve the issue but I guess is worth trying

EB5AGV

I have found out that headphones generate a temporary tinnitus lots earlier than using monitors… so I try to use a moderate volume (less than an acoustic would generate) and, when possible, play with monitors or just play the Yamaha U3H which, so far, has never triggered tinnitus

Picotin

EB5AGV play with monitors or just play the Yamaha U3H which, so far, has never triggered tinnitus

This afternoon I've spent about three hours with my friend and piano teacher messing around with his acoustic piano.

Interesting enough, I didn't experience any trigger with tinnitus and ear whistling.

I'm now wondering if that was because of the distraction due to human interaction or rather the instrument.

Humm.. 🤔

EB5AGV

Picotin Beside the interesting analysis that vagfilm has suggested, I'm keen to test a good VST and quality monitor when possible.

Sure, I got a pair of Adam A7X and, after some slight tweaking, they sound wonderful with most VSTs.

Hint: remove all reverb / room mics when using monitors. The drier the piano sound, the better IMHO.

vagfilm

EB5AGV Hint: remove all reverb / room mics when using monitors. The drier the piano sound, the better IMHO.

Interesting observation, worthwhile testing, for sure. I would intuitively expect that the reverb would muddle the sound and spread out the spectral frequencies, and improve tinnitus as a result, but it may have the opposite effect and oversaturate the offending frequencies with overlapping harmonics. Worth checking.

My main point is: before looking for solutions, it is important to really identify the problem. What triggers MY tinnitus? narrow range of frequencies, wide range, high volume, from one ear, both ears, time of day, how tired I am? Not what makes it worse, but what can RELIABLY trigger it. In some patients it is easy to identify as a narrow range, in other it is not. But if you don't have a cause to test, you end up chasing your tail…

Picotin

EB5AGV Sure, I got a pair of Adam A7X and, after some slight tweaking, they sound wonderful with most VSTs.

Few months back I checked them out in a store and I was pleasing impressed.

Maybe a bit bright (can I say that when the upper frequencies seems to be a bit too much?) and definitely better than the T7V.

I'm wondering anyway if they can match with my living room where the piano sits. I will ask advices on another post.

David B

Shooting guns for 30 years has caused tinnitus in my ears/brain. More in the left ear than the right. It's a highe pitch frequency in the 6-8 kHz range. My hearing is diminished in that range. I can't hear anything below 45db.

It really stinks and I regret shooting all those years even though it was fun at the time. I wore hearing protection and shot outdoors, but that was not enough. Sound suppressors on the end of my barrels is the only thing that would have prevented it. Unfortunately, those are illegal in CA for nonsensical reasons.

In terms of piano, I just have to keep the volume down whether I'm listening to the speaker or through headphones. It's a challenge to do that because we want the realistic acoustic experience and don't want to perceive the action as sluggish or heavy due to the lower volume, but it's essential to protect what's left of my hearing.

We must reason from cause to effect. High db's cause hearing damage. Lower the volume and you'll be OK.

God Bless,
David

Picotin

David B It really stinks and I regret shooting all those years even though it was fun at the time.

How many silly habits come back later in life presenting their bills.

My vertebrae and joints have something to say about years of heavy training too…

Picotin

David B Shooting guns for 30 years

Dear David,

I'm going OT in all kindness and no criticism is meant. Nor to people shooting guns (I also used to shoot long time ago) and especially neither to yourself.

I understand you're a Pastor and I can't hold myself expressing how awkward I feel about the idea of a man of faith holding a gun.

Since I moved in France few years ago I'm very close to few monastic communities. Both benedictines monks and nuns. Quite few of them are very close friends of mine and I just couldn't ever imagine them even getting closer to a gun.

I guess just the idea would be almost hilarious to them. (We happen to kid a lot among ourselves)

I acknowledge that Europeans and North American holds different opinions on this matter and I guess from this side of the pond we struggle to fully grasp the "gun culture" quite popular overseas.

Furthermore, I'm catholic and I suppose you're protestant, therefore we both knows already the friendly differences we hold on other topics 😊

Once again, this is just a personal consideration and you're obviously free to ignore it.

God bless you, David.

Skropi

My tinnitus doesnt stop, so I cant really search for triggers 😑

Picotin

Skropi

I feel your pain and I'm really sorry to hear that. It must be exhausting